If a person should die before God is able to get through to them, will they be raised up in the first resurrection with the sinful habit of self-pity?

If Peter died before God was able to reveal to him the prejudice there was in his heart, would he be raised up in the first resurrection with his prejudice?

MM, it seems you are thinking a person must be perfect to be in the first resurrection. Is this correct? Do you see any difference between the 144,000, who are translated, and other Christians who have died in Christ? Was the thief on the cross ready to be translated?

That is the question I'm seeking to answer. Do you have an answer?

Morally perfect, yes, but not necessarily mentally perfect. For example, a person may not know the truth about Sabbath-keeping. They are not mentally perfect. Mental perfection has to do with things we have to learn through Bible study and prayer. To be a part of the first resurrection they must be born again morally perfect. Moral perfection has to do with cultivated traits of character.


Not so far as moral perfection is concerned. And in some cases there may be no difference in mental perfection. For example, Ellen White was just as ready to go through the investigative judgment and the time of trouble as any one of the 144,000 will be.


Yes.

Now, concerning my question - Do you believe people will be a part of the first resurrection who did not crucify all of the cultivated sinful traits of character? If so, please name an example. Or, is sinful self-pity your example?

So you don't think Rosangela's example about self-pity applies. In your opinion, she wasn't born again until she "confessed and crucified" her self pity (and still isn't, if she has any similar traits she is unaware of, and hasn't "confessed and crucified" yet. I trust Rosangela won't mind being picked on.)

I suppose you must think you are morally perfect.

I'm curious about something. A while back you said to me "Thank you for stating the obvious" which is clearly sarcastic. I asked my wife on a scale of 1 to 100 where she would rate this in terms of being sarcastic, and she said 100. I think most people would agree.

What I'm curious about is if the fact that you think you are morally perfect means you think you are unable to say something sarcastic? Therefore anything you say must not be sarcastic, regardless of how sarcastic it sounds?



I don't think this is true. I think God sends their is a corporate blessing in the truth which God sends, and all benefit from it. For example, EGW tells us that the message of Jones and Waggoner was given to prepare the world for the coming of Christ. She called it the "beginning of the latter rain." There is no reason to suppose that EGW has no need of the latter rain in order to be part of the grain which matures to be harvested, to use a metaphor.



Interestingly enough, this is what Evangelicals think. I used to think this before becoming an Adventist.

Thanks for answering these questions. It helps explain things.



Self-pity was Rosangela's question. I'm weary of this question since I've already answered it something like 100 times, so I'm happy to go with hers.

Our character is determined not by the sinful traits we possess, but by the sinful traits we cherish.
Cherishing implies that you are conscious of a sinful trait of character and allow it to go on. You are unwilling to deny yourself.
However, you can neither cherish nor repress a sinful trait you aren’t conscious of. Manifesting it is different from cherishing it.
It’s your attitude that counts – are you living for self or for God?

“The character formed in this world determines the destiny for eternity. The element of value in the life in this world will be of value in the world to come. Our future is determined by the way in which we now allow ourselves to be influenced. If we cherish hereditary and cultivated tendencies to wrong, ... we can never enter the kingdom of God. But if we strive to repress evil inclinations, if we are willing to be governed by the Spirit of Christ, we are transformed.” {YI, August 17, 1899 par. 7}

“There are some who will not hear. So long have they chosen to follow their own way and their own wisdom, so long have they cherished defective hereditary and cultivated tendencies of character, that they are blind, and cannot see afar off.” --Ms 138, 1902.

In the resurrection all our sinful traits will have been removed, right?

“Thus the redeemed will be welcomed to the mansions that Jesus is preparing for them. ... Every sinful tendency, every imperfection that afflicts them here, has been removed by the blood of Christ; and the excellence and brightness of His glory, far exceeding the brightness of the sun in its meridian splendor, is imparted to them.” {OHC 39.3}

Yes, I am morally perfect, and I haven’t sinned in 20 years. Is that what you want me to say? Would that make you happy? Come on, Tom, you’re way off base here. You’re making this way too personal. Do you really want to study this way? I don’t. I’d rather study it using the third person as case in point. It's safer, don't you think?

Here’s the context of the "Thank you for stating the obvious" post:


Please note the context: “Yes, of course. The law of Moses is based on mercy. It allowed for forgiveness. I should have made this point more clear. Thank you for stating the obvious.” I admitted to leaving out the obvious and thanked you for stating it. And I was honest and sincere about it.

I realize this phrase can be used sarcastically, and I’m sorry if it offended you, but I was not being sarcastic when I wrote it. If you had seen and heard me say it, I’m sure it would not have looked or sounded sarcastic to you. My wife agrees with me, and wished me to convey these thoughts to you on her behalf.

Just out of curiosity I Googled this expression online and found quite a few people using it in the positive sense. For example, in certain discussion groups people are often hesitant to state the obvious. They’re afraid of sounding rude, or insensitive, or whatever. So, it goes unsaid. But when someone finally does state the obvious, the others are relieved, and often say, “Thank you for stating the obvious.”


I had forgotten we disagree on this point. You seem to believe there is a certain message that God is withholding, a message which He is waiting to reveal until the right time, a message that will prepare the 144,000 to be translated alive. I believe God revealed to the NT writers all the truth necessary to be translated alive, and that these truths have been known by the Remnant Church since shortly after 1844. The following quotes indicate as much:


Please note that nowhere does she say Jesus cannot return until after God reveals the truths He has been withholding. Instead, she says the reason Jesus hasn’t returned yet is because we, as a church, have not embraced and experienced the truths God has already revealed to us. We’re not waiting for more truth; God is waiting for us to live up to the light we already we have.

Also, what do you think Sister White lacked that would have prevented her from being translated alive with the 144,000?


Why don’t you believe it now? Why do you think he wasn’t ready to be translated alive? What is the difference between him and the 144,000?


Okay. Let me see if I can reconstruct your answer: Yes, I believe people will be part of the first resurrection even though they did not crucify all of their cultivated sinful traits of character. Sinful self-pity is an example of a cultivated sinful trait of character people do not crucify before they die, and which will not keep them out of heaven. Jesus was unable to reveal it to them because they were unable to confront it before they died. For whatever reasons, they were not ready to face this sin before they died. Therefore, it remained unknown to them. As such, it does not count against them in judgment. They will simply be resurrected without it. Moreover, we shouldn’t worry about the cultivated sinful traits of character Jesus does not reveal to us. Since He is willing to let it ride for now, we shouldn't worry about it. The main thing we need to do is learn to love and appreciate the character of God. As we do this, we will gradually discover cultivated sinful traits of character that need to be confessed and crucified, and we will gladly do it because we love God our Father, and want to do those things that please Him.

How did I do?

Amen. I totally agree with you on this point.


Again, amen. I totally agree with you on this point, too. The question is, therefore, what constitutes an unknown cultivated sinful trait of character? And, why is it unknown, why are they unaware or unconscious of it? Why is it obvious to others but not to them? What accounts for their ignorance? Is God ot blame? Is He waiting to reveal it to them until a more appropriate time?


She is not addressing unknown cultivated traits of character in the quote posted above. Instead, she is simply saying we must "repress" (not eliminate) our evil inclinations (hereditary and cultivated) if we hope to enter heaven. In Christ, by abiding in Him, we can control them in this lifetime; but we will never be able to totally silence their voices. They will always, in one way or another, tempt us from within to be unlike Jesus.


These people have likely committed the unpardonable sin.


Not "in the resurrection", but rather before they died. Is that what you meant? Here's how she puts it:

AH 16
If you have become estranged and have failed to be Bible Christians, be converted; for the character you bear in probationary time will be the character you will have at the coming of Christ. If you would be a saint in heaven, you must first be a saint on earth. The traits of character you cherish in life will not be changed by death or by the resurrection. You will come up from the grave with the same disposition you manifested in your home and in society. Jesus does not change the character at His coming. The work of transformation must be done now. Our daily lives are determining our destiny. {AH 16.2}

MM, you believe that when a person is born again, their character is perfect, right?

A second question. You believe the thief on the cross was ready for translation. I take it from this that you believe that any person ready for death is ready for translation, right?