Hi Tom,

I’d be glad to comment on this. There is much debate that the laws of Moses were dictated to him by God and therefore represent the way God would handle things. Jesus was confronted with this in terms of divorce and his answer was that God wanted no part in divorce, but allowed them to divorce because of the hardness of their hearts.

I believe that Jesus’ assessment applies to all the laws. They are not God’s ideals, but represent the hardness of the hearts of the people. Not only do the actual laws represent where the people were at, but the punishment did also. Jesus demonstrated this with the woman caught in adultery. Yes, according to the law you can stone a woman, but it is God’s heart to forgive and set free!

Therefore I would say that all the laws of Moses reflected the hard hearts of the people and not God at all. The sin in our hearts is exposed not only in the law, but in the punishment.

Here is a question for you: Do you think that Jesus’ words, to those who caught the woman in adultery, would have been the right words in Moses’ time to someone who caught a woman in adultery?

If your answer is yes then you have the answer to your #2.

I wouldn’t say that God was testing Moses, but revealing what was in the hearts of Israel by both the law and the punishments dictated in the law. Neither reflects God’s heart, but both reflect our hard hearts.

That is how I see it too, Tom!

Satan could break all the rules, but God only had one path that He could follow and that is to act according to His Righteousness. Freedom and love are not some arbitrary way God decided to act. This is not an act at all. Freedom and love are the essence of who God is and for Him to change would be to make Satan's accusations about Him true.

This earth is a demonstration of the reality of what is. Is love more powerful than hate? Is freedom more powerful than bondage? It doesn't seem to be the reality in the short term, but in the long run God's ways will be proven right and it isn't because He stacks the deck and forces it to be that way. It is because it is that way. We are a demonstrate that God is right and His ways are life!

scott

Tom, from what you've posted thus far it seems pretty clear you believe Jesus "permitted" sinning in the Law of Moses. Is this true, or have I misunderstood you?

Tom, I am tempted to say - Amen! However, you left out a very important aspect, an important truth. It was the Son of God who told Moses to stone the Sabbath-breaker to death. And, while here in the flesh Jesus did not undermine the law of Moses. When the Jews brought the adulteress to Him and asked what should be done about it, Jesus instructed them to obey the law of Moses.

I'm asking if you think they are God's will now. Do you think God wants Sabbath-breakers to be stoned now? Do you think He wants women's hands cut off? Notice under the law that only women's are cut off, but not men's. How does this reflect God's ideal will? How does it reflect God's ideal will that (according to you) it was (is, I suppose, if the law of Moses is still in effect) OK for a man to have multiple wives, but not a woman to have multiple husbands? Why was it OK for a man to divorce a woman, but not a woman to divorce a man?

Do you think that Jesus’ words, to those who caught the woman in adultery, would have been the right words in Moses’ time to someone who caught a woman in adultery?

You two seem to think the various "strange acts" in the Bible reflect God behaving in a way contrary to His law in order to reach and teach sinners. However, when sinners behave contrary to the law, it is considered a sin. If your view of God is true, how is He not also guilty of sinning?

At the beginning of the great controversy, the angels did not understand this. Had Satan and his host then been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished; but it would not have been apparent to heavenly beings that this was the inevitable result of sin. A doubt of God's goodness would have remained in their minds as evil seed, to produce its deadly fruit of sin and woe.(DA 764)

You two seem to think the various "strange acts" in the Bible reflect God behaving in a way contrary to His law in order to reach and teach sinners.

MM, I asked the following:



The first two questions I've been asking of both you and GC for some time now, and, to the best of my knowledge, neither of you have answered it. My apologies if you have, and I missed it.

Also Scott asked you the following question:



I'm interested in your answer to this too.

Hi MM,

You seem to think that actions are not bad or good, but it is who does them that make them bad or good. If I do them they are bad, but if God does them they are good. I always thought that a tree was judged good or bad by its fruit. What is the point of the law telling us of bad behavior if we can't trust that God would never do those things?

Is sin only relative to motive or can we commit sin unknowingly or even with a good motive?

An example would be the priests who tortured and killed the martyrs. Some of them really believe they were called by God to save the souls of the heretics.

That is a strange question. This whole life experience from Adam until now shows that God permits sin. It also shows that God forgives sins. It also shows that God heals the damage that sin does.

Your question is absurd according to the Bible!

scott