If Christ didn’t modify the law of Moses then how do you handle these texts:

Colossians 2: 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Galatians 3: 23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Hebrews 8: 13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Matthew 5: 38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. 43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

2 Corinthians 3: 7Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

I'm sorry MM!

No honest question is absurd and it was rude of me to say that!
Please accept my apology!

scott

Yes, exactly! Had the Jews been in concert with God’s heart stoning would be out of the question. This was a society raise and nurtured on force and power. Had Moses not threatened them with their lives they would have gone out of control.

I have a friend who works in prison ministries who told a group of bible students in prison that if he were to show mercy and lead every inmate out of the prison we would find his dead body two blocks away. People who are controlled by fear and passion can’t be reasoned with. These were not your everyday Americans.

My point is that we look at the OT and judge God’s character and draw conclusions that God kills at will, that God manipulates, that God uses his power to drive people into submission, that God commits genocide, that God . . . (you fill in the blank), but what I’m trying to express is that the law of Moses doesn’t tell us what God is like or what God would do, but what we are like, what corners we back ourselves into where killing for justice is the only way out, what we think of as justice, what we expect from our Creator God.

Thus I say that the OT says much more about our condition than it does about God’s character.

You can hold my words to the fire all you like, call me a heretic or infidel, but remember that Jesus was condemned to death by men finding Him guilty of breaking the laws of Moses. They couldn’t see where Christ reflected their image of God that they derived from Moses’ writings.

scott

Jesus said in John that everything He said and did was from the Father. You insist that God doesn’t change, but Jesus never killed anyone, but forgave even those murdering Him. He forgave and showed mercy to every kind of sinner that the laws of Moses told us to kill. Why do you insist that Jesus’ revelation of God is only a partial one showing one side of God and the OT is Jesus showing another side of God.

Hebrews 1 tells us that “1In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.”

That phrase “exact representation” is the Greek word “char-ak-ter” which makes the text say: “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact character of his being”

Why do you not submit your image of God to what Christ revealed rather than what the prophets revealed? God spoke through the prophets, but is now speaking through His Son who is the exact character of God. Doesn’t that say that the prophets did not represent God’s character as good as Jesus did?


scott

Scott,

SOME NEEDED BACKGROUND:
This starts, once again, a whole new debate. I am frequently, in these online discussions, drawn to the fact that they have originated because of the modern translations of the Bible which have introduced changes to the text. While you may choose to support your views from the NIV Bible, I have studied the changes its translators made sufficiently to consider it pariah.

No one should tell anyone else what Bible to use. I will not tell you what Bible to use. I will, however, declare strongly to you that if you wish to convince me, you will not use the NIV, for I do not accept it. To me, in all seriousness, it stands for "Never Inspired Version." Here are the versions I most frequently accept: KJV, NKJV, ASV, and occasionally, depending on the verse, another version--or perhaps another language. I recognize that no version is perfect--and this includes those in the original languages. We know that the scribes introduced some changes along the way, and the originals do not exist. Even if they existed, they were written by men, and not by God Himself, in the sinful language of men.

ADDRESSING THE QUESTION NOW:
The term "canceled the written code" does not exist in other versions of the Bible such as the KJV. In the KJV, the term "ordinances" is found, and that correlates to the same term in the OT. However, in the NIV, there are but three other verses containing the term "written code." All three are in the New Testament, leaving no bridges to its historical, Old Testament, equivalent. Would you like to tell me how you interpret "written code?" Basically, the NIV translators have opened up a free-for-all on this term, since it occurs but four times in their book. Perhaps they hope you will think it applies to the entire law of Moses? Most people, unfortunately, seem led to this assumption through the reading in the NIV. And why shouldn't they be? Compare the NIV reading of Ephesians 2:15:

"...by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations." (Never Inspired Version)

Jesus said He came not to destroy the law. The NIV came to do the opposite! Whereas the KJV is clear that the commandments abolished were only those which were contained in the ordinances (kept in the side of the ark, not the tables of stone inside), the NIV would have you believe that the entire "law with its commandments and regulations" was abolished.

So, when you asked this:

"If Christ didn’t modify the law of Moses then how do you handle these texts:"

...I reply that the texts you have used are mistranslated and deceitful. The NIV opens up MULTIPLE contradictions within the scripture, and this is just one of them. This one contradiction, however, is arguably having the greatest impact upon the trends in "modern theology" which we are seeing today.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Hi GC,

We can study it in the Greek and Hebrew if you like, but it might be a little hard on those peeking in!

But you will find that it is the whole Old Covenant including the whole Law of Moses, the 10 Commandments (particularly), the feasts, the ceremonies, the earthly priesthood, the earthly sacrifice, and everything that Moses included in Exodus 19-24.

This is what the NT teaches. Butler taught that it was only the ceremonial law, Jones and Waggoner taught that it was only the 10 Commandments, and Ellen saw it as both the ceremonial law and primarily the 10 Commandments.

But the Bible simply states that the system that was becoming obsolete because Christ had fulfilled it was the Old Covenant (all inclusive of all its parts).

It doesn’t matter to me what translation you want to use because I use the Greek and Hebrew to do my studies!

scott

Hi GC,

Do you think that the Laws of Moses that were put in the side of the Ark included a copy of the same 10 Commandments that were written in stone? In other words is Genesis 19-24 the actually laws of Moses that were a record of the covenant that God entered with Israel?

And do you think that the 10 Commandments were the standard of righteousness within the Laws of Moses?

scott

Colossians 2: 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

MM: I suppose this applies to the ceremonial services. But does it mean the entire law of Moses was eliminated?

Galatians 3: 23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

MM: Isn't this referring to the 10Cs? If so, then it certainly cannot mean the law is no longer useful. The law is a transcript of God's character, as such, it is immutable and eternal, right?

Hebrews 8: 13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

MM: I suppose this is referring to the ceremonial aspects of the law.

Matthew 5: 38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. 43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

MM: What Jesus said was inherent in the law of Moses.

2 Corinthians 3: 7Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

MM: This certainly isn't saying the law is no longer binding.

Scott, you have made some pretty strong claims. Please support them with inspired statements. Thank you.

PS - You didn't address each point I raised. Would you mind?