"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God!" God saves sinners and works for our restoration. He starts where we are. If this is a problem within your theology you might want to consider that the OC law was an inferior law written on stone compared to the superior law of the NC written on the heart.

Salvation is not to those who keep the law perfectly, but to those who trust in Jesus! Believe it or not God saves repentant sinners before he even attempts to change their ways.

scott

Rosangela's point was that the fact that the law of Moses does not say that having slaves is a sin does not make it any less a sin. If the law of Moses said having slaves is a sin, she wouldn't have made that point, would she?

Are you disputing that having slaves is sinful? It sounds like it. It seems like you think sin is defined by the Mosaic law. It's not. It's defined by the moral law.

God allowed certain practices because of the hardness of men's heart. Sin is not defined by the law of Moses. It is defined by the law of God.

I am saying that the law of Moses explained to Jews how to treat their slaves. The fact the Bible does not condemn slavery is evidence it was not a sin for Jews to have slaves. The law of Moses explained how to obey the law of God. To break one of the laws of Moses was to break the law of God. Here's how she put it:

PP 310, 311, 364, 603
The minds of the people, blinded and debased by slavery and heathenism, were not prepared to appreciate fully the far-reaching principles of God's ten precepts. That the obligations of the Decalogue might be more fully understood and enforced, additional precepts were given, illustrating and applying the principles of the Ten Commandments. These laws were called judgments, both because they were framed in infinite wisdom and equity and because the magistrates were to give judgment according to them. Unlike the Ten Commandments, they were delivered privately to Moses, who was to communicate them to the people. {PP 310.1}

These laws were to be recorded by Moses, and carefully treasured as the foundation of the national law, and, with the ten precepts which they were given to illustrate, the condition of the fulfillment of God's promises to Israel. {PP 311.3}

But He did not stop with giving them the precepts of the Decalogue. The people had shown themselves so easily led astray that He would leave no door of temptation unguarded. Moses was commanded to write, as God should bid him, judgments and laws giving minute instruction as to what was required. These directions relating to the duty of the people to God, to one another, and to the stranger were only the principles of the Ten Commandments amplified and given in a specific manner, that none need err. They were designed to guard the sacredness of the ten precepts engraved on the tables of stone. {PP 364.1}

The government of Israel was administered in the name and by the authority of God. The work of Moses, of the seventy elders, of the rulers and judges, was simply to enforce the laws that God had given; they had no authority to legislate for the nation. This was, and continued to be, the condition of Israel's existence as a nation. From age to age men inspired by God were sent to instruct the people and to direct in the enforcement of the laws. {PP 603.1}

So, yes, you are saying God did indeed accommodate sinning in the law of Moses. But you didn't address whether or not it was a sin for Jews to obey the law of Moses. Did obeying the law of Moses perpetuate certain sinful practices?

Scott, if the law of Moses accommodates certain preexisting sinful practices, does it mean Jews were guilty of sinning if they lived in harmony with the law of Moses?

And, where does it say having slaves is sinful? I realize there are sinful ways to enslave people, but where in the law of Moses is it a sin to have slaves?

No it's not. This was Rosangela's point.

I don't think I said God accomodated sinning, did I? I don't recall saying this. Could you quote something please?

I think what I said is that God accommodated a stiff-necked ignorant people.



I did address this. I explained that sin is defined by the moral law, not the law of Moses.



No, but the opposite of what you're asking is true. Truly obeying the law of Moses would have meant accepting Christ as one's Savior, which would bring sin to an end. In fact, this is the *only* way to bring sin to an end.

Amen Tom!

The ceremonial law of Moses pointed to a Savior whom eventually explained fully what it meant to keep God's law much better than Moses' judgments. God intended to buffer the consequences of sin until He could lead Israel out of polygamy and slavery. In other words God winked at "sin" until He could teach differently. Notice I said God winked at “sin”.

MM, the NT has several definitions for sin other than "sin is the transgression of the law". But we know from Jesus that the true law is to love like God loves. Where does slavery fit into God's picture of love? How can one force another's will for their gain or ease and claim to love them.

There is a situation where slavery is compared to a relationship with God. That is the indentured slave who loved his master so much that when offered his freedom he would choose to be a slave for the rest of his master's life. The NT uses this metaphor for God's children. We were once God's slaves, but once set free we see His love and would rather be His slave than to be set free. This is a metaphor, not a reality!!!!! God is using a human situation to try and give us a glimpse of heavenly reality. This doesn't mean that God ever condones slavery.

scott

Yes, I believe that the Jews were guilty of sinning. They were sinners living under God's covenant of grace just like us! Were they condemned because of their sin? Not necessarily! They were under God's gracious character of love who didn't hold their "sin" against them as He worked to lead them into His ways.

Why do you never consider any definition of sin other than "sin is the transgression of the law". What about "He who knows to do right but doesn't do it is guilty of sin" or "sin is anything done outside of faith." Where does slavery fit into forgiveness and doing good to all men? Where does slavery fit into doing good to your enemies? Where does slavery fit into Jesus' commission to serve others rather than being served? How about Jesus' "setting the captives free" or "freeing us from bondage"?

Where is there righteousness in slavery? The only purpose I could see in taking slaves would be too eventually and teach them the responsibilities of freedom so that I could set them free and insure their freedom would last.

scott