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Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: scott] #101133
07/23/08 03:25 PM
07/23/08 03:25 PM
S
scott  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 442
Wyoming, USA
 Quote:
by GC: Why did Jesus die? Why should He die so that you would be "free to sin?" "Free to reject God's law?" JESUS DID NOT COME TO KEEP THE LAW IN OUR PLACE. He came to take its penalty in our place.

by scott: This statement epitomizes the penal atonement view!


Another thing I would like to point out is that Jesus claimed that His purpose in coming was to reveal the truth about the Father. Ellen agrees:


 Quote:
"Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,-to set men right through the revelation of God. In Christ was arrayed before men the paternal grace and the matchless perfections of the Father. In his prayer just before his crucifixion, he declared, 'I have manifested thy name.' 'I have glorified thee on the earth; I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.' When the object of his mission was attained,-the revelation of God to the world,-the Son of God announced that his work was accomplished, and that the character of the Father was made manifest to men." (E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, January 20,
1890)


The revelation of the goodness of the Father is the gospel, the good news, that Jesus came to reveal to us and to the universe.

Where on earth did Christians come up with the idea that the purpose of Jesus' visitation to earth was to save us from a God that couldn't forgive without innocent blood? And they have the gall to call this false doctrine "the gospel".

It appalls me!

scott

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: scott] #101481
08/11/08 04:16 PM
08/11/08 04:16 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Back to the question at hand - Does polygamy violate the 7th Commandment?

The obvious answer is, No, not if Hebrew men were obeying the law of Moses.

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Mountain Man] #101495
08/11/08 05:39 PM
08/11/08 05:39 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
God has not sanctioned polygamy in a single instance. It was contrary to his will. He knew that the happiness of man would be destroyed by it. (1SP 94)


 Quote:
Polygamy had become so widespread that it had ceased to be regarded as a sin, but it was no less a violation of the law of God, and was fatal to the sacredness and peace of the family relation.(PP 145)


Which commandment guards the family in regards to having relations with one not your wife?

It seems that we are beating a dead horse, or, one which is long past dead and whose corpse has rotted and there's nothing but bones left, but if polygamy was contrary to God's will because he knew is would cause men unhappiness, and He never sanctioned it, and it was no less a "sin" although it was common, it seems odd that to me that you would think it not a violation of the seventh commandment.

Leaving that aside, even not considering the Levirate marriage, your position is that polygamy is never contrary to the seventh commandment, isn't it?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #101536
08/13/08 01:55 PM
08/13/08 01:55 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
This takes us right back to where we left off, namely, if it is always a sin to have more than one wife, why, then, did Jesus allow for it in the law of Moses? Does Jesus allow for sinning in the law of Moses?

Correct, I do not believe polygamy constitutes adultery. Adultery happens when a married person has sex with someone they are not married to. In the case of polygamy they are married.

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Mountain Man] #101563
08/13/08 08:45 PM
08/13/08 08:45 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
 Quote:
This takes us right back to where we left off, namely, if it is always a sin to have more than one wife, why, then, did Jesus allow for it in the law of Moses? Does Jesus allow for sinning in the law of Moses?


We've discussed this. The law of Moses is not an expression of God's ideal will. God's ideal will was expressed in Christ. For example, Christ explained that it is adultery to divorce your wife and marry another, save for unfaithfulness. But the law of Moses allowed divorce for other reasons. Why? Because of the hardness of their heart. There's many, many example of this in the law of Moses. God graciously met a backward and stubborn people where they were, hoping to lead them to Christ.

 Quote:
Correct, I do not believe polygamy constitutes adultery. Adultery happens when a married person has sex with someone they are not married to. In the case of polygamy they are married.


You're assuming they're married, but they're not, at least in a Biblical sense. Christ taught that a man and a woman are joined together by God. He didn't teach that a man and multiple women are joined together by God. Actually, this can be seen from Genesis. A marriage is more than a civil ceremony.

SDA's have recognized this by having men put away their wives, except for the first, when they become SDA's. However, this is not necessarily a great idea, and I believe this has been backed off on, but it serves to make the point that we, as a people, have understood that only the first marriage is legitimate. For reasons of expedience (e.g., the ones obtaining multiple wives didn't know better at the time, and the "cure" is worse than the "disease," so to speak) the marriages may be allowed to continue.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Mountain Man] #101564
08/13/08 09:10 PM
08/13/08 09:10 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
 Quote:
Back to the question at hand - Does polygamy violate the 7th Commandment?
The obvious answer is, No, not if Hebrew men were obeying the law of Moses.

The answer is Yes, not No. What does the law of Moses have to do with it? The fact that Paul allowed Christians to continue possessing slaves doesn't mean slavery is not a sin.
The fact that the law of Moses makes provision for an already existing situation is comparable to Paul doing the same in the case of slavery.

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Rosangela] #101581
08/14/08 12:33 AM
08/14/08 12:33 AM
S
scott  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 442
Wyoming, USA
 Originally Posted By: Rosangela
 Quote:
Back to the question at hand - Does polygamy violate the 7th Commandment?
The obvious answer is, No, not if Hebrew men were obeying the law of Moses.

The answer is Yes, not No. What does the law of Moses have to do with it? The fact that Paul allowed Christians to continue possessing slaves doesn't mean slavery is not a sin.
The fact that the law of Moses makes provision for an already existing situation is comparable to Paul doing the same in the case of slavery.


Amen!!!!!

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: scott] #101585
08/14/08 02:19 AM
08/14/08 02:19 AM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I was going to say "What she said," but "Amen!!!!" works well.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Tom] #101632
08/15/08 02:56 PM
08/15/08 02:56 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
If, as you all seem to be saying, the law of Moses accommodates certain preexisting sinful practices, does it mean Jews were guilty of sinning if they lived in harmony with the law of Moses?

Where does it say having slaves is sinful? I realize there are sinful ways to enslave people, but where in the law of Moses is it a sin to have slaves?

Re: Does polygame violate the 7th commandment? [Re: Mountain Man] #101633
08/15/08 03:02 PM
08/15/08 03:02 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Originally Posted By: Tom
For reasons of expedience (e.g., the ones obtaining multiple wives didn't know better at the time, and the "cure" is worse than the "disease," so to speak) the marriages may be allowed to continue.

But the law of Moses does more than protect preexisting polygamous relationships, it tells Jewish men to marry their late brother's wife.

 Originally Posted By: Tom
But the law of Moses allowed divorce for other reasons.

So, are you suggesting God accommodated sinful practices in the law of Moses? If so, was it a sin for Jews to obey the law of Moses? Did the law of Moses perpetuate certain sinful practices?

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