Rosangela, what's that list from?

Here's how Peter described babes in Christ: "Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: if so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious." (1 Peter 2:1-3)

"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God." (1 Peter 4:1, 2)

"And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins." (2 Peter 1:5-9)

Here's a list of sins Paul says newborn believers do not commit while walking in the Spirit: "Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal 5:19-21)

I believe these descriptions describe believers who have been properly indoctrinated in the way of righteousness and true holiness. There is nothing they are ignorant of, no sin which they might practice ignorantly. They are without spot or blame in the sight of God. But, of course, this is only true of them while they are abiding in Jesus. "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not." (1 John 3:6)

This is the third time I'm asking you this. It can be answered "yes" or "no." You can explain any answer you make.

Of course they have a history of sinning. "All have sinned."

I'm not referring to a history, of course. Let's try a fourth time!



That is, the person, while abiding is Jesus, will not be sinning at all (including unknown sins).

It is the doctrine of not sinning while abiding in Christ, since the power of the Spirit of Christ precludes sinning when we are in submission to it and harness it. That we have lapses in concentration of submitting to God's Spirit and harnessing God's power means we do lapse into sinning, but the principle remains viable and true.

Colin, you agree with MM's ideas on this? That is, it is impossible for a properly indoctrinated SDA to commit a sin of ignorance, if abiding in Jesus? MM distinguishes between properly indoctrinated SDA's and others. So a non-SDA, or an improperly indoctrinated SDA could sin ignorantly. Do you agree with this? He also believes that no person anywhere can commit a sin of ignorance which involves any of the last 6 commandments, whether born again or not. Do you agree with this?

Tom, are you not embarrassed to misquote MM this way? MM clearly said that they would not sin ignorantly "while they are abiding in Jesus." I realize that with this forum it is not possible in the reply window, when you have chosen to quote the most recent poster, to see and remember the exact words of posters before that. Perhaps you just did not see what MM wrote, and became fuzzy on the details while posting. It happens. But for me, I try to pay attention to those kinds of things, so I find that it helps to open a second browser window at the same time that I can view the discussion from while posting in the first window.

As for sinning ignorantly, I have a great deal of respect for my father, and his studies, and he has pointed out to me that every sin we do is a sin of ignorance. We would not choose to do it if we could truly see the pain it causes Christ, and know how greatly it harms us and others. All of the sacrifices of the Jews were for sins of ignorance. God did not ordain any sacrifices for sins other than for sins of ignorance.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I don't think about "sins of ignorance"; Green Cochoa has a good point on all sins likely being sins of ignorance: I think that when we consciously abide in Jesus we don't sin, as a pragmatic principle.

The difference between the full Adventist message and a diluted version isn't who believes which but that the teachings of each speak of more or less power: whichever message one actually believes doesn't dictate how much divine power one can tap into, so the lines aren't as theoretical as we like them to be when highlighting the full message. We may and can each overcome temptation whatever our Christian beliefs, except perhaps our spiritual expectations holding us back. It takes using the faith of Jesus to overcome sin, but if we don't use it we don't gain the victory: unless & until we fulfil Rom 1:17b every minute of the day there'll be slip-ups.

It's intriguing that that clause can be rendered, "Those who live by faith shall be righteous." That makes the point better doesn't it, and states how sin is overcome - or rather how we are and can be righteous...