No, because the 144,000 understand the Gospel. When I say the Gospel, I mean as it began to be presented in 1888.

My questions regarding Jesus were because you wrote:



and then started speaking of Jesus,



which is a bit confusing, since it implies that Jesus "in the same way" was "full of defects and imperfections."



Ok. If you see no sin, you see no sin.

Tom, do you understand the Gospel? Or, does the Gospel even exist yet? Are we waiting for God to reveal it?

Do you think Jesus inherited and possessed sinful flesh full of defects and imperfections?

What do you consider sin in your example?

Was Peter abiding in Jesus when he sinned against the Gentiles?

Has anyone this side of the 144,000 ever lived without sinning ignorantly? Besides Jesus, of course.

EGW said that the "whole purpose" of Christ's mission was the "revelation of God". I consider this mission of Christ, the revelation of God, to be the Gospel.



Yes, it exists. God revealed it in Christ. The Gospel, or Good News, is about God.



I wouldn't say Jesus was full of defects and imperfections. This is the language you used. You said, "Yes, they are full of defects and imperfections." I wouldn't say this of Jesus Christ.

His flesh was the flesh of humanity.



No. However, before he sinned, he may not have been aware of his prejudice. It is this unknown sin I was referring to.



No. Everyone has sinned.



Doing something with an egocentric motivation is an example.

1. Tom, since the Gospel exists, since you understand it - does that mean you are as sinless as the 144,000 will be? If not, why not?

2. In what way was Jesus' human nature different than ours? Did His sinful flesh war against Him in the same way it wars against us? If not, why not?

3. Paul rebuked Peter for dissembling. By that time Peter was fully aware of the sinfulness of prejudicial feelings and behavior. Do I understand you correctly in saying you believe Peter was not abiding in Jesus when he dissembled?

4. Do you know of anyone who has ceased sinning? If so, who?

5. Do you think wanting to be in heaven to escape hell and hardships, to be free of temptations and trials, are selfish and sinful motives? If so, why?

SC 21
Motives stronger, and agencies more powerful, could never be brought into operation; the exceeding rewards for right-doing, the enjoyment of heaven, the society of the angels, the communion and love of God and His Son, the elevation and extension of all our powers throughout eternal ages--are these not mighty incentives and encouragements to urge us to give the heart's loving service to our Creator and Redeemer? {SC 21.3}

And, on the other hand, the judgments of God pronounced against sin, the inevitable retribution, the degradation of our character, and the final destruction, are presented in God's word to warn us against the service of Satan. {SC 21.4}

1.The Gospel is a black and white thing. There is more light to come:



The 1888 Message was the beginning of the "light which is to fill the world with glory." So that's a good starting point, but there's more to come.

Also, I've not claimed to "understand it." I will say that what I have understood of the Gospel has warmed my heart, and I've tried to share these concepts.



Why are you asking me this? You should know my answer to this. I just presented a quote on this subject which you noted.



"Dissembled"? What do you mean? Whatever you mean by this term, I answered your question just above: "No. However, before he sinned, he may not have been aware of his prejudice. It is this unknown sin I was referring to."



Why are you asking this? How would I know if someone has ceased sinning? Isn't the only think I could attest to is that I never saw so-and-so sin? There's no way I could know what a person is doing when he's not in my presence, is there? Also, am I an infallible judge as to what is sin and what isn't?



They're at least childish. They're like the flower-girl at a wedding who has no desire for the groom, but is just there for the ice cream. One judge a child for such an attitude, but the bride of Christ should grow in love to desire *His* honor and glory; that's what will be motivating the 144,000, not an ego-centric desire to be in heaven or avoid hell.

The SC quotes are lowest-level appeals. There is a place for such appeals, especially for someone just coming to Christ (which is the context of her comments). The Bible has these types of appeals as well.

But there are higher-level appeals. For example:

1. Has God revealed everything we need to experience the gospel unto perfection? Or, is He withholding certain truths so that we cannot experience the gospel like the 144,000 will in the future?

2. Is the fact our nature wars against us an indication it is sinful, defective, and imperfect? Did Jesus' human nature war against Him in the same way it wars against us?

3. Peter "withdrew and separated himself" from the Gentiles. That is he "dissembled". See Galatians 2:12 and 13. Paul rebuked him. Do you believe Peter was ignorant of his sin at this time? And, do you believe he was abiding in Jesus when he dissembled?

4. Have you read about someone in the Bible who reached the point where they ceased sinning while abiding in Jesus?

5. When people respond to the "lowest-level appeals" are they guilty of sinning ignorantly, guilty of fostering selfish and sinful motives?

Our reception of truth is not dependent solely upon what God reveals. For example, it depends upon the reception of that truth. For example, the beginning of the latter rain started in 1888, but that truth was not received. So this is not a matter of God's withholding something, but with what He has sent not being received.



I'm not sure why you're asking me this. Do you have some reason to think I would answer these questions differently than you would?



I addressed this.



This question doesn't make sense to me. Could you rephrase it?



I would put it more in terms of their being "guilty" of being childish. When we first come to Christ, we have no choice but to respond to these lower level motivations, as this is all we know. But, as EGW points out:



This is what our motivation should be. No the "fear of punishment," nor the "hope of reward," but "the Saviour's matchless love" which awakens love in the heart of those who behold Christ.

1. Has God revealed everything we need to know to experience the gospel fully like the 144,000 will? Or, is there more truth yet to be revealed? Can we experience the gospel now as fully as the 144,000 will?

2. Is the fact our nature wars against us an indication it is sinful, defective, and imperfect? Did Jesus' human nature war against Him in the same way it wars against us? I have no idea how you will answer this question.

3. Peter "withdrew and separated himself" from the Gentiles. That is he "dissembled". See Galatians 2:12 and 13. Paul rebuked him. Do you believe Peter was ignorant of his sin at this time? And, do you believe he was abiding in Jesus when he dissembled? I do not recall your answer to this question.

4. Have you read about someone in the Bible who reached the point where they ceased sinning while abiding in Jesus? Did anyone in the Bible stop sinning? Or, did everyone sin ignorantly in one way or another? Did they all die before attaining unto the sinlessness Adam enjoyed in Eden? "Everyone who by faith obeys God's commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. {HP 146.5}

5. People who are "guilty of being childish" are they required to eventually confess and repent of sin? Is it a sin to initially respond to the offer of salvation for selfish, childish, self-serving reasons? Does it represent an unknown sin?

I answered 1 in the post right above yours.

Regarding 2, yes, Jesus' human nature was like ours.

Regarding 3, that's too bad. I like the way I put it, but don't recall what I said. Maybe you can find it.

Regarding 4, I haven't asserted that people must go on sinning until they die. Since the Bible doesn't specifically address the points you are asking about (specific people), I can't address that. I'll say in general terms that I believe in victory over sin.

Regarding 5, this would depend upon the Holy Spirit, in terms of whether confession is required. It's not necessarily a sin to be childish, but to choose to remain childish after being shown a better alternative seems to me like it could be something one should repent of.

I think the original context for my remark was doing things from an egocentric motivation. That seems to me like sin. Do you disagree?