Mike,

I find it odd that you did not read the whole statement. It answers your question. Perhaps you were skimming for lack of time in your busy schedule. I'll highlight the most important part to make it easier to skim off the answer.



How did Moses lift up the serpent in the wilderness? Jesus says that is the SAME WAY in which He would be lifted up....(on a cross). This is so clear a child could understand it. (Of course, one must have first heard the story of the serpents in the wilderness, to know what Jesus was talking about.) And what happened to Jesus on the cross? He died.

Incidentally, in the Chinese language, the word for "snake" and the word for "death" sound almost identical. The average American would say they ARE identical. The only difference is the tone in which it is stated. We can add to these two words the number "four" in Chinese, which again sounds much like "death." Because of this, Chinese culture considers the number four to be unlucky. Hospitals and hotels have no fourth floor...but they will have a thirteenth floor. And Chinese people don't seem to talk much about snakes either.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Which you say is illogical and not clearly explained in Scripture.

I've never said it is illogical; it's just that I don't understand why it is valid. In human courts of law we do not allow death-row criminals to go free and execute an innocent person in their place.


That's why I said it was taken for granted. They were relying on oral tradition.

Actually I did read the whole passage. It reminds me of Jesus using the story of Jonah to say He will be in the heart of the earth for three days and mights. Nothing in the book of Jonah leads one to think of the Son of God.


There are so many dissimilarities between the Nehushtan story and the Crucifixion story that I find it hard to say it clearly explains why Jesus had to die.


Thank you for the cool language lesson. However, the following insight does not clearly answer the title question of this thread - "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

This is very cryptic and symbolic. You are assuming Jesus is describing death by crucifixion because the Nehushtan story clearly does not specify it. Nevertheless, I believe it clearly implies Jesus had to die, otherwise sinners would perish with their sins.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

You said it doesn't make sense. Something which doesn't make sense is illogical. You don't understand why it's valid because it isn't. You're absolutely right is asserting that it doesn't make sense.



This doesn't make sense either. An oral tradition that everybody took for granted, but nobody wrote down. Paul writes to the Gentiles about Christ, but doesn't explain the meaning of the death of Christ, because this is taken for granted because of oral tradition. How did, for example, the Galatians receive this oral tradition?

GC, I take it you are giving up on me. That's too bad, though, because you didn't explain how the uplifted brazen serpent story clearly explains why Jesus had to die. Assuming it does isn't the same thing as explaining how it does.

Logic doesn't have anything to do with it. Love doesn't have to be logical to be valid. But this isn't to say it is illogical. I don't understand it, but I believe it because God said so.

Do you think death-row sinners are allowed to go free at least partly because Jesus died in their place?


Are you assuming "explain why Jesus had to die" and "explain the meaning of the death of Christ" mean the same thing?

"How did, for example, the Galatians receive this oral tradition?" Why, Paul told them, of course!

So you think God wants you to believe things which don't make sense. I don't believe this is true. I think God appeals to us on the basis of reason. Not reason alone, but reason is involved. He doesn't ask us to believe things which don't make sense or aren't valid.



God never asks us to believe (note: never) without giving sufficient evidence upon which to base our faith. This evidence appeals to our reason.





An argument which is based on "I believe this because God said so, but it doesn't make sense to me" is hardly one that can stand up to scrutiny. And it's unflattering to God. God has given us ample evidence upon which to understand the meaning of Christ's death. You're suggesting He came up with a way of saving us which doesn't appeal to our reason.



This one flew way over my head. I have no idea either what you are talking about nor why.



The meaning of the death of Christ encapsulates why Jesus had to die.



He told them. But not in his letters to them, which were inspired by the Holy Spirit for all time, but only when speaking to them in person? Why do you think the Holy Spirit would do this? Isn't it as important for the readers of Scripture to understand Christ's death as it was for the Galatians?