T:I didn't say anything about filtering God's commands. You're somehow equating not believing there is a reason to do something with filtering God's commands. Please explain your reasoning here.

A:God says something (e.g. "keep the Sabbath holy") and you refuse to obey because you don't see a good reason for it.

That, in my book, is a clear example of filtering God's commands by human reason.

Said the angel, "If light comes, and that light is set aside, or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject." I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at "even," and it was inferred that even was at six. (Spiritual Gifts Volume 4b, p.3)

T:What if God commands you to do something you think is wrong? (I mean morally wrong). Would you do it? Do you think God would do such a thing?

A:This is just what I'm talking about.

"God commands you to do something." If that is a known fact, "Would I do it?" is not even a question the true disciple asks. Of course he would do it. The only question at that point is how to do it.

What if he thought it was morally wrong? He has two options: 1) He can admit that God has higher moral standards and he should learn from God rather than presume to sit in judgment on the morality of God's commands.

2) He should find himself a god who measures up to his own standards of morality.

If he chooses option 2, he'll find one that looks eerily similar to himself. And he'll start thinking that he's doing pretty good, since he's reflecting his god pretty well.

The only safe option is the simple option: If God says it, do it. If something doesn't make sense, you will not gain any light or wisdom by withholding obedience, which only results in more darkness.

Let's answer my question first please. You're saying that if God commanded you to kill your son, you would "of course" do it. Is there anything you wouldn't do?

T: And if that didn't happen?

M: Can you think of a situation in which God wouldn't call it off?

T: Can you? This is a problem you need to resolve, MM. It doesn't apply to me, because I'm not willing to "of course" kill because I hear a voice I identify as God's voice telling me to do so.

What happens if you're wrong about the voice? That would be a situation where God wouldn't call it off. You'd be killing your son, or some other terrible thing, under the delusion that God told you to do so. People do this sort of thing all the time.

I asked you earlier in this thread how you would know if a voice telling you to do something was God's or not, and you responded very well, saying you would do so by knowing God's character and His law. You seem to be backing away from this now, being willing to "of course" kill your son, which is, "of course" both contrary to God's character and His law. Would you be willing to "of course" do other things that you perceive to be contrary to His character and His law? (I'm under the assumption that you perceive killing your son to be contrary to His character and law. Please remember my question was related to you and not Abraham, whose situation was different than yours is now. You affirmed you would be willing to "of course" kill your son if God so commanded.)

M: I have no doubt God will never command me to sacrifice my son. Do you feel the same way?

T: The same way as you? No.

M:Please explain the differences between what I believe about it and what you do.

T: You don't seem to evaluate the feasibility of commands based on your conscience and knowledge of God's character. That is, it appears to me, you would do something contrary to your beliefs as to what is right if you believed God were telling you to do so.

M: Tom, do you see a difference between obeying on the "basis of intelligent appreciation of His character and understanding of His law" versus obeying "even though we do not understand the reasons why"?

T: When you say "even though we do not understand the reasons why"? do you mean all the reasons, or any of the reasons?

M:Use Abraham as an example. How many reasons did God give him when He commanded him to sacrifice his son? And, did Abraham understand those reasons?

Also, what was the basis of Abraham's obedience? Was it based on perfect understanding of the reasons why God commanded him to sacrifice his son? Or, was it based solely on the fact he trusted God and believed things would make sense eventually? And, did believing that God could resurrect his son if need be count as a reason why he should obey God?

T: I asked you one question, and you ask me six back without answering the one I asked. Let's step back a moment. You asked me if I see a difference between obeying God on the basis of an intelligent appreciation of His character and obeying Him even though we don't understand the reasons why. I'm asking you if by "the reasons why" you mean "all of the reasons why" or "any of the reasons why." I don't see why Abraham needs to be discussed to answer this question.

T:So you're saying if you heard a voice commanding you to kill your son, you would do so, reasoning:

1. God is holy, just, and good.
2. His law is holy, just, and good.

Therefore, I can obey the command to sacrifice my son without understanding the reasons why.

M: Yes, of course. Wouldn't you?

Let's answer my question first please. You're saying that if God commanded you to kill your son, you would "of course" do it. Is there anything you wouldn't do?

M:Yes, there is plenty I wouldn't do. For example, I wouldn't kill my son.

Yes, I would do whatever God commanded me to do.

I know the voice of God.

I get the impression you would not have set out to sacrifice your son if you had been in Abraham's place and position. Is that right?

T: I asked you one question, and you ask me six back without answering the one I asked. Let's step back a moment. You asked me if I see a difference between obeying God on the basis of an intelligent appreciation of His character and obeying Him even though we don't understand the reasons why. I'm asking you if by "the reasons why" you mean "all of the reasons why" or "any of the reasons why." I don't see why Abraham needs to be discussed to answer this question.

M:My question relates to Abraham's case. Were there "any" reasons given? If so, did he base his decision to obey on any or all of them?