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The Wrath of God
#11515
11/16/04 08:05 PM
11/16/04 08:05 PM
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As a result of the discussion in another topic I have created this topic on The Wrath of God where we can ask and answer such questions as:
1 - What is the wrath of God?
2 - Does God kill, or does man, etc. kill himself?
Let the discussion from that other topic begin and continue here.
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Re: The Wrath of God
#11516
11/16/04 10:04 PM
11/16/04 10:04 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote:
Then the end will come. God will vindicate His law and deliver His people. Satan and all who have joined him in rebellion will be cut off. Sin and sinners will perish, root and branch, (Mal. 4:1),--Satan the root, and his followers the branches. The word will be fulfilled to the prince of evil, "Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; . . . I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. . . . Thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." Then "the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be;" "they shall be as though they had not been." Ezek. 28:6-19; Ps. 37:10; Obadiah 16.
This is not an act of arbitrary power on the part of God. The rejecters of His mercy reap that which they have sown. God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life. He is "alienated from the life of God." Christ says, "All they that hate Me love death." Eph. 4:18; Prov. 8:36. God gives them existence for a time that they may develop their character and reveal their principles. This accomplished, they receive the results of their own choice. By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them. (DA 763, 764)
The second paragraph points out:
1) The judgement is not an arbitrary act of power of God.
2) The wicked reap that which they have sown.
3) God is the fountain of life. The wicked die because they choose to separate themselves from God.
4) The wicked die because they are out of so harmony with God that God's presence to them is a consuming fire.
5) The glory of God destroys the wicked.
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Re: The Wrath of God
#11517
11/16/04 10:18 PM
11/16/04 10:18 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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You write "arbitary act of power of God". Why is such an act of power nessessarily arbitary in your oppinion? God knows what He is doing. His actions are just even if we cannot see how it works out with our limmited view. There is noting arbitary about Gods actions, even if they mean the purposefull death of sinners.
/Thomas
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Re: The Wrath of God
#11518
11/17/04 05:03 AM
11/17/04 05:03 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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I didn't write "arbitrary". Ellen White did. I just quoted her. Satan would have us to believe that his invention of sin is innocuous. He argued from the beginning that he and his angels should be free from the law. He argued that he had a better way of government than God. The Spirit of Prophesy tells us that compelling force is found only under Satan's government. God's government is moral, and the principles of His government are love and truth. Satan's government, in addition to running under the principle of compelling force, runs under the principle of deception. Satan has ever endeavored to do evil and then blame God for it. He has always done that and will continue to. He presents all things as being God's fault. For example, he blames God for the inception of sin. Calvanism embodies this principle. God supposedly ordained that sin should occur so that He could manifest His glory. There are even Adventists that hold to some variation of this idea. Satan presents the cross as if it were a pagan sacrifice where the wrath of God is appeased. The idea is that God is so angry at sin, He must kill something, so He kills Christ so He doesn't have to kill us. Similarly the final destruction of the wicked he presents as God's fault, rather than the consequence of his own doing. Satan invented sin, and sin causes ruin. God has consistently worked to bring sin to an end as quickly as possible. The cross shows that all of Satan's accusations are false. God is not a God of arbitrary love, but of self-sacrificing love. The cross shows sin in its true light. I'm kind of rambling on here, so I'll try to bring this to an end. Here's a quote from the Great Controversy: quote:
The Jews had forged their own fetters; they had filled for themselves the cup of vengeance. In the utter destruction that befell them as a nation, and in all the woes that followed them in their dispersion, they were but reaping the harvest which their own hands had sown. Says the prophet: "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;" "for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity." Hosea 13:9; 14:1. Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work.
The question is, is God's wrath arbitrary? Is there anything wrong with sin other than God doesn't want us to do it? Is sin really bad, in and of itself, or is it just bad because God says so?
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Re: The Wrath of God
#11519
11/17/04 06:10 PM
11/17/04 06:10 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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Sin is what separates us from God, and the wages of sinis death, and Jesus came and redeemed us from the wages of sin.
God Bless,
Will
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Re: The Wrath of God
#11520
11/18/04 08:18 AM
11/18/04 08:18 AM
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.
[ January 01, 2005, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: Doug Meister ]
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Re: The Wrath of God
#11521
11/18/04 12:51 PM
11/18/04 12:51 PM
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I think EGW also referred to God's act as God's strange act as it is the last thing God ever wanted to do.
God uses the Lake of Fire for two reasons, to kill, destroy, consume all the wicked leaving neither root nor branch; eternal death from which there is no further resurrection and to cleanse the earth from all taints of sin followed by a recreation of the earth to what it was when He created it the first time.
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Re: The Wrath of God
#11522
11/18/04 07:34 PM
11/18/04 07:34 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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I haven't seen any of these points being addressed:
1) The judgement is not an arbitrary act of power of God.
2) The wicked reap that which they have sown.
3) God is the fountain of life. The wicked die because they choose to separate themselves from God.
4) The wicked die because they are out of so harmony with God that God's presence to them is a consuming fire.
5) The glory of God destroys the wicked.
Whatever theory one wants to come up with regarding the destruction of the wicked must harmonize with these statements.
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Re: The Wrath of God
#11523
11/18/04 08:16 PM
11/18/04 08:16 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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Here is God's strange act (destruction of the wicked): quote:
Isaiah 28:20-22 KJV
20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.
God Bless,
Will
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Re: The Wrath of God
#11524
11/18/04 08:37 PM
11/18/04 08:37 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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God in mercy has prevent sin from having its rightful consequence, which is death. When God permits that to happen, all who have chosen to separate themselves from God, the fountain of life, will suffer the consequences of their choice. God will appear to them as a consuming fire, and the glory of God will destroy them.
This is God's strange act, and is, to my mind, in perfect harmony with the principles I have quoted from DA 764.
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