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Re: I have some questions [Re: Green Cochoa] #115912
07/13/09 02:14 PM
07/13/09 02:14 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
"The early christians thought it good to devote a day to this task given by the Lord."

Thomas, did they also think it good to abandon the Sabbath day?
Originally Posted By: västergötland
Good question. At some point they must have done so, for the simple reason that the Sabbath day was abandoned.

One misstep leads to another.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
Doing the tasks of the Lord to the best of your understanding is a misstep? Ok...


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #115913
07/13/09 02:17 PM
07/13/09 02:17 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
James, I had to refuse to work on the Sabbath while serving my country in the military. I was an Air Force survival instructor and loved my job very much. I was looking forward to a long and happy career with the military.

But they changed the schedule so that what they wanted us to do on the Sabbath was unacceptable to me. After training the pilots and aircrew members how to evade and survive, we turned them loose to practice their skills. We instructors role played as enemy aggressors. It was a very necessary part of their training but they wanted me to do it on the Sabbath.

When I made it clear to them that I wouldn't participate on the Sabbath, they threatened to fine me $15,000 ( a lot of money back then) and imprison me for 2 years. I had a wife, 3 kids, a house, two cars, etc, and I couldn't afford to lose my job. Most of the church members encouraged me to work on the Sabbath, that it would be a bad witness to not work.

Long story short, after a series of awesome interventions on the part of God, I was able to separate from the military with honors. Now that I was out of the military, I didn't have a job, a way to provide for my family. After another series of wonderful interventions on the part of God, I started Wilderness Way Adventures, an outdoor ministry.

Now I get to do what I love to do, that is, teach people how to survive in the wilderness and how to rescue people stranded in the wilderness, and God is my employer - not the Air Force. My situation is 100 percent better than what it was. Praise the Lord. Thank you, Jesus!

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #115919
07/13/09 02:42 PM
07/13/09 02:42 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Not through controversy and discussion is the soul enlightened. We must look and live. Nicodemus received the lesson, and carried it with him. He searched the Scriptures in a new way, not for the discussion of a theory, but in order to receive life for the soul. He began to see the kingdom of heaven as he submitted himself to the leading of the Holy Spirit. {DA 175.2}

There are thousands today who need to learn the same truth that was taught to Nicodemus by the uplifted serpent. They depend on their obedience to the law of God to commend them to His favor. When they are bidden to look to Jesus, and believe that He saves them solely through His grace, they exclaim, "How can these things be?" {DA 175.3}

Like Nicodemus, we must be willing to enter into life in the same way as the chief of sinners. Than Christ, "there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12. Through faith we receive the grace of God; but faith is not our Saviour. It earns nothing. It is the hand by which we lay hold upon Christ, and appropriate His merits, the remedy for sin. And we cannot even repent without the aid of the Spirit of God. The Scripture says of Christ, "Him hath God exalted with His right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." Acts 5:31. Repentance comes from Christ as truly as does pardon. {DA 175.4}

whistle


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #115926
07/13/09 05:09 PM
07/13/09 05:09 PM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
James, I had to refuse to work on the Sabbath while serving my country in the military. I was an Air Force survival instructor and loved my job very much. I was looking forward to a long and happy career with the military.

But they changed the schedule so that what they wanted us to do on the Sabbath was unacceptable to me. After training the pilots and aircrew members how to evade and survive, we turned them loose to practice their skills. We instructors role played as enemy aggressors. It was a very necessary part of their training but they wanted me to do it on the Sabbath.

When I made it clear to them that I wouldn't participate on the Sabbath, they threatened to fine me $15,000 ( a lot of money back then) and imprison me for 2 years. I had a wife, 3 kids, a house, two cars, etc, and I couldn't afford to lose my job. Most of the church members encouraged me to work on the Sabbath, that it would be a bad witness to not work.

Long story short, after a series of awesome interventions on the part of God, I was able to separate from the military with honors. Now that I was out of the military, I didn't have a job, a way to provide for my family. After another series of wonderful interventions on the part of God, I started Wilderness Way Adventures, an outdoor ministry.

Now I get to do what I love to do, that is, teach people how to survive in the wilderness and how to rescue people stranded in the wilderness, and God is my employer - not the Air Force. My situation is 100 percent better than what it was. Praise the Lord. Thank you, Jesus!
you tested Him and found Him powerful indeed!! faithful and true.

every time i think He has run out of miracles for me, or is getting fed up helping me, here He comes running!!Mar 10:36 .... What would ye that I should do for you?


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: I have some questions [Re: kland] #115969
07/14/09 04:10 AM
07/14/09 04:10 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: James Saptenno
Therefore, only God, knew a man's heart, his motives, his reasons and his willings.

Not only does God know a man's heart, but also the man.

Do I need to quote you again:
Originally Posted By: James Saptenno
I preffer to serve the Lord, but I could not deny my responsibility and obligation to my job and people who needs me.
...
If I deny my job and serve the Lord, I am sure that I will lost my job from this big client. This time, I don't dare to face such risk.

Is it not obvious that you have clearly told all of us your motive for twisting scripture? Is it not obvious you have clearly told all of us your reason for distracting us from what you have done?

Quote:
In fact God did a miracle on that very day, on his Sabbath day while I am working and could not leave the site for the church.

Whether God, or the Devil does a miracle on the Sabbath day, does that mean you should continue to dishonor it?

Again, I am sorry you have chosen to honor man rather than God.
Quote:
Without my presence, the job could not go further, but the cost still running. Who would be blamed for this? Me!
or to honor self.
With a touch of vanity thrown in.


Reading your comment, I feel sorry for you. You seems haven't find the joy of knowing God. From your speech, you are a typical SDA's that you could find in many of our churches, who judge people from their act, and based their judgment on the law instead of the love of God. A cynical and skeptic man, cold loveless people but a keen sabbath keeper and engaged in many church's activities.

Do you know that God so loved me, that even though I lived in the flesh and denying Him, He still did miracle for me.

One day, about 10 years ago, where I live for the flesh and got drunk every night till morning time, a big guy using a wooden club had smashed the head of another guy sitting next to me, breaking his head and he died later on the way to the hospital.

I, panic striken, tried to calm down this guy, but instead of listening to me, he change his attention to me, and then hit me with this wooden club of 1m length and 3"x3" thick many times countless. He attacked me like a crazy animal and I got hit all over my body, hands, head, neck, feet. A big strong guy, you can imagine his power.

I must have died like the other guy with broken arms, feet, ribs and head, but what had happened instead?? Nothing happen, no broken arms, feet, ribs and head. I feel nothing, even though he hit me so hard and many times till he stopped and was tired with shoulders hanging loose. he ran away leaving me wondering why I am still alive, sounds and healthy without any damage or bad bruish. This is one of the biggest miracle God personally had done for me.

Do you think it is Satan who did it? Satan want my death, beacause once I had unmasked his mask in a face to face battle. And many times in my preaching and evagelism, where some people became Adventist. Especially now, in the coming of Mark Finley for Jakarta Big Evangelsm in early September, I did a lot in sharing the bible truth. Who knows that I could brought many souls to Jesus.

Maybe because God knew that I could become his servant and disciple one day, that he spare my life even though I live by the flesh and had deny him for a long time.

You must come to understand and FEEL the love of God, and got the joy and peace that only those who is forgiven and justified could have. God then is eager to make miracles in fron of this man.

In his love

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #115973
07/14/09 08:35 AM
07/14/09 08:35 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: James Saptenno
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
James, are you considering refusing to imitate Jesus' example of Sabbath-keeping and conducting business on the His holy day? Can you expect God to bless your business against His will?

I don't refuse to imitate Jesus, but I could not abandon my responsibility and obligation to my job while many people were connected to it and could not go further without my presence.

In fact, God did a miracle at that day (Sabbath morning, while I was working at the site of job), which became my witness on Wednesday evening pray in the church.

The miracle happened after I had tried and did all posible way to overcome an obstacle that could become very dangerous and could ruin the whole preparation job that have been taken by my team and had cost a lot, but at the end, I gave up. I just pray to God, my Almighty God that loved me, please put this obstacle away and let the whole operation be running well, smooth, safe and all in order.

And what happened when the operation started!! Nothing happens, the obstacle had been removed, all was going fine and well and safe until we completed the whole operation.

I knew that I have a good God that loved me, an Almighty God that nothing is impossible for Him, even I did this job on his Sabbath day, but he knew better my situation, my reason then any other human being. His blessing for my job and the miracle that he has done, even though it was Sabbath day, gave me the assurance what a wondeful and lovely God, I had,... better we had.

It sounds like there was a safety issue, that if you were absent from the job innocent people could have been seriously injured. Or, did I misunderstand the situation?

If there was a safety concern, and people could have been injured without you being there, then I can see why God blessed in overcoming the obstacle.

However, if safety wasn't an immediate and unavoidable concern, then I cannot say with certainty that it was God who blessed your labors on the Sabbath day.

Please fill in the details. What exactly was the safety concern, the obstacle that required your presence to work on the Sabbath?

Are you sure you aren't justifying working unnecessarily on the Sabbath? Please feel free to be forthcoming. This is a great place and time to analyze the situation for future reference.

Also, have you considered the possibility that Jesus has another job waiting for you and that He's waiting for you to refuse to work on the Sabbath so that you are forced to quit and seek employment elsewhere?


Yes, safety is the reason I could not leave the site. Safety of the equipments, safety of the job, safety of the people gathering at the job. And no one could change me.

How great I feel and how happy I was, whenever we reached the end and complete the job at Sabbath afternoon, without accident and everything run smooth and well. The obstackle had been removed to I don't know where. My heart was filled with an awesome feeling, how great and mighty my God is, and loving me.

I will face the same situation again this next Sabbath, when the job start from Friday morning till Saturday night, even I had prayed that the job might fall at other days.

In His love

Re: I have some questions [Re: James Saptenno] #115976
07/14/09 12:20 PM
07/14/09 12:20 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: James Saptenno
Originally Posted By: James Saptenno
I preffer to serve the Lord, but I could not deny my responsibility and obligation to my job and people who needs me.
...
If I deny my job and serve the Lord, I am sure that I will lost my job from this big client. This time, I don't dare to face such risk.


Reading your comment, I feel sorry for you.

I don't think you are understanding. You have judged yourself.

You have said you prefer to serve the Lord, but have chosen man.
You have said you have to serve man or you will lose your job.
You have implied that you are serving man for the big money.

Does anyone else need to judge you what you have admitted yourself?

But I will judge you in this. Even though you fully know which is the Sabbath, you have dishonestly presented that the Sabbath has been changed in order to justify your choices. You have been attempting to mislead others by justifying what you fully know is wrong.

Rather than twisting scriptures to justify your behavior, you could approach it from how health care workers do. I'm sure it would be well for workers of nuclear power plants to work on Sabbath if alternative arrangements could not be made. If you feel justified in working on the Sabbath, I am not judging you as I don't know what is involved in your work. But I do judge you for misrepresenting God's Word as you have freely admitted.


Re: I have some questions [Re: kland] #115979
07/14/09 12:54 PM
07/14/09 12:54 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Kland, please consider your words carefully. Are you sure you know enough of the details to judge James so harshly?

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #115980
07/14/09 12:55 PM
07/14/09 12:55 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
James, please explain in more detail why safety concerns lead you to believe Jesus wants you to work on the Sabbath. Thank you.

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #115986
07/14/09 02:24 PM
07/14/09 02:24 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Kland, please consider your words carefully. Are you sure you know enough of the details to judge James so harshly?
Could you state what you think I am judging James on. Perhaps I am not being clear to either of you.

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