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Re: I have some questions
[Re: teresaq]
#116313
07/19/09 06:31 AM
07/19/09 06:31 AM
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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there will be a time very soon when most all of us will have to face what you are now facing.
we dont know until then how we will react, but at this time it is for us to try and encourage you to trust in God. and no we are probably not doing it in the best way. God works miracles for us all the time and shows us His love in a myriad of ways, but, i dont believe, that that means, or is some kind of proof that, He is condoning our actions all the time.
i believe i was the one who equated the two "questions", tho, and not kland. i think, if you think about it, one seemed to lead into the other. whether or not i offer my apologies. it was my fault.
you say you have asked God to change the day, but that hasnt happened. instead of doing that, have you presented the problem to Him as you see it, and asked Him what you should do, or for Him to work it out? Yes, i will try to do what you suggest. In fact it is a bit completed, because some time this job runs a full 7 days, and each day of it need my presence. How to choose another day if there is none?? In His love
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Re: I have some questions
[Re: Mountain Man]
#116314
07/19/09 06:41 AM
07/19/09 06:41 AM
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James, thank you for explaining things more clearly. Your command of the English language is excellent. However, it would help me if you would take the time to explain more fully why you felt working on the Sabbath was necessary and acceptable in the eyes of God. To be honest with you, James, the four reasons you stated above (reposted below) come short of what I would say are legitimate reasons for working on the Sabbath. Are there any other reasons? Therefore, i asked, whenever we had prayed for the job would not fall on Sabbath, but if in fact it fell on Sabbath, what would we do?? In my case, i honestly say, that I could not abandon my job and deny my responsibility and obligation. If I still did it, 1) I would be blamed for the delay, 2) the cost that occur, 3) penalties, and 4) possible a separation with my client. I hope that I didn't implying or give an indication that "working on the Sabbath was necessary and acceptable in the eyes of God." I only want to witness something I believe God had done while I was working on Sabbath day, in answer of my pray. The four reasons I gave is not to defend a view that working on Sabbath is allowable when circumstances is right. Not at all!1 It is my personal reasons, that needs to be settled. But, maybe I have a slight feeling that God might forgive me for working on Sabbath because of the situations and circumstances that I faced at that time. Is serving people (job and it's relations)an excuse for working on Sabbath? In His love
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Re: I have some questions
[Re: Bobryan]
#116315
07/19/09 06:48 AM
07/19/09 06:48 AM
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OP
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I've some questions that needed to be clarified.
1. Is the "Lord's Day" in Rev. 1:10 refers to Sabbath day or to Sunday?
In His love Sabbath - if you take it from Isaiah 58 or Mark 2:27-28. However - there are "traditions" that have developed from supposed 2nd and 3rd century sources that apply it (in those later centuries) to Sunday. So it depends on whether you want to rely on later century custom and tradition to answer the question - or the Word of God. in Christ, Bob What you said is our SDA's view. But non SDA's is holding this verse that Lord's Day is Sunday because it's original Greek version stated "kuriake hemera" that is accepted till today as Sunday. So,according to them, we might change the the wording of the verse asf: Rev. 1:10 - I was in the Spirit on Sunday, and I heard behind me a great voice like the calling of a war trumpet, ..... In His love
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Re: I have some questions
[Re: teresaq]
#116316
07/19/09 06:55 AM
07/19/09 06:55 AM
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OP
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Therefore, my question is: what will do, even we had prayed but our flight falls on the Sabbath day?? Will we honor Sabbath and die, or will we take the flight?
Jesus said, pray for your flight would not fall on Sabbath, but if it happens? What then? Take the flight or stay?? i see this as a false dilemma question. it puts God in a very bad light. it portrays Him as telling us to pray that our flight be not on the sabbath nor in the winter, but when the time comes, saying, to the effect, "gotcha" as if He asked us to do something with no intentions on His part of fulfilling the request. but in this case, with this particular point we have a precedent. when the followers of Christ had to flee jerusalem, was their flight in the winter or on the sabbath? that alone tells us if He will be faithful and true, today, also. Maybe, because there is a difference between the matters of live and death and a job at risk??? If the 1st, God will definetely answer, If the 2nd, maybe yes may be no ??? In His love
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Re: I have some questions
[Re: Bobryan]
#116317
07/19/09 06:58 AM
07/19/09 06:58 AM
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OP
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You missed what I have said; I have prayed that the job might fall at other days and not at the Sabbath day, but it fell on Sabbath.
I have the responsibility and obligation to conclude the job, which onvolve may people from different institution and also expatriat from Europe who came all the way to supervise the job, which involve a cost of USD. 2.5 Million.
Do you think it is good for me, telling this people, sorry, this is my Sabbath day, the law could not allow me to work today, come back again on Sunday??
In this situation is God happy because I abandon my job and go to the church or I abandon my time to go to the church and do my job? For you, the answer is clear, because your view is solely based on perfect obedience to the law, even it would make many people angry, loosing time and money.
But the real son of God would not do that. His action is base4d on love without sacrificing other people. as long as he had tried all posible way to avoid working on Sabbath, but when it does happened the other way, with such responsibility as mine, then doing the job on Sabbath is what God would me do rather than abandon it and deny my responsibility and obligation. Serving people is serving God, when the job is succesfully done, people will agree that I'm with the Lord.
Do you think Jesus would do the same as mine? Please be careful with your answer, otherwise you become like a Pharisian.
In His love
God has made provision for what happens when your neighbor's Ox falls in a ditch on Sabbath saying that it is good to help for it is not only the animal's life and well-being but also your neighbor's business that is at risk by that tragic circumstance. You must go to God and seek His council for those cases. One or two others here may enjoy sitting in the seat of God for while -- but that has no weight with our God. I pray that God guides you as He knows best. in Christ, Bob Many thanks for your support. GBU In His love
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Re: I have some questions
[Re: James Saptenno]
#116318
07/19/09 07:28 AM
07/19/09 07:28 AM
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OP
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Matthew 12::5 - Or have you never read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple violate the sanctity of the Sabbath [breaking it] and yet are guiltless?
Here is one text that justify non SDA's to neglect Sabbath. This counter came from the same guy who brought the subject of "Kuriake hemera."
He said that because Christ (the Temple of God) is in him and he in Christ (the temple of God), breaking Sabbath is guiltless. He is just the same as those priests in the temple of God, breaking Sabbath but guiltless.
What is your answer?
In His love
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Re: I have some questions
[Re: James Saptenno]
#116319
07/19/09 07:33 AM
07/19/09 07:33 AM
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Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
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He said that because Christ (the Temple of God) is in him and he in Christ (the temple of God), breaking Sabbath is guiltless. He is just the same as those priests in the temple of God, breaking Sabbath but guiltless. James, Aren't we the temple of God, not Christ?
Blessings
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Re: I have some questions
[Re: Elle]
#116320
07/19/09 08:15 AM
07/19/09 08:15 AM
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He said that because Christ (the Temple of God) is in him and he in Christ (the temple of God), breaking Sabbath is guiltless. He is just the same as those priests in the temple of God, breaking Sabbath but guiltless. James, Aren't we the temple of God, not Christ? Here is the complete text: Matthew 12::5 - Or have you never read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple violate the sanctity of the Sabbath [breaking it] and yet are guiltless? 6. But I tell you, Something greater and more exalted and more majestic than the temple is here!I mean, Christ is greater than the temple of God (on earth). John 2:21 - But He had spoken of the temple which was His body. Christ himself is the temple (of flesh) In His love
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Re: I have some questions
[Re: James Saptenno]
#116321
07/19/09 08:27 AM
07/19/09 08:27 AM
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OP
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Active Member 2012
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Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Breaking Sabbath but guiltless.
Breaking Sabbathy but guiltless.
Breaking Sabbath but guiltless.
They sure have a reason to deny Sabbath and accept Sunday??
In His love
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Re: I have some questions
[Re: James Saptenno]
#116322
07/19/09 10:06 AM
07/19/09 10:06 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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James,
Why did you present your question to us if it were ok to break the Sabbath, if you already had made up your mind? It seems you had some doubts, did you not? It is a good thing to have Christian fellowship and encouragement, but when it comes to matters of principle and integrity, would you really trust us whom you have never met? Why not take your question to God? Ask Him to show you the way that you should go. Isaiah 30:21, Psalm 32:6, Isaiah 1:18, and other texts are all very helpful in understanding the manner in which God wishes to guide us.
I would doubt very much that your conscience will cease troubling you over this when it seems clear that the work you do and the work of which Jesus spoke concerning the temple priests is altogether different. Jesus did not commend simply any type of labor on the Sabbath day. Far from it.
Are you a "priest" (pastor)? Is your work on the Sabbath day in the "temple" (church)? If so, you are in the right place and have no need to be concerned. If, however, you are doing your own business, and not that of the Lord as a shepherd of His flock, Jesus' words about the priests cannot be applied in your situation.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
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