James, I am deeply concerned for you. It seems to me, from what you've posted here, that your reasons for working on the Sabbath are "personal" (your word) rather than biblical. Please take a closer look at the reasons why you are willing to work on the holy and sacred Sabbath day. Please, brother, you owe it to yourself and to those of us (family, friends, and the onlooking universe) who love and care about you. As always, you are in my most heartfelt prayers.

God always answers. take it to Him in prayer. dont ask Him to work out the sabbath thing, just talk to Him as if you were talking to any person. tell Him how you feel, that you dont want to lose your job, etc. just take it to Him and see what happens.

what usually works for me is when i start asking them does that mean that it is now ok to steal, or to kill, etc. i have a "presentation". they usually get angry and do not reply. unfortunately it doesnt make them think.

my "presentation". feel free to adapt or disregard.
no, brother, we are not under the law. but, perhaps, we need that mindshift as in those pictures that are 2-in-1. you know, like the one that when you look at it it is a vase, but if you keep looking it changes into a woman? there are several like it. it takes a mindshift to be able to see both.

as for us "lawkeepers", actually were not. we break the law moment by moment, hourly and daily. by the law i mean the one written by Gods own finger.

i would like to ask you which of those 10 commandments are we free to disregard, now? Jesus summarized them as supreme love for God and love our fellowman as for ourselves. if we should get confused as to what that means then we have the 10 commandments, if were still not sure how deep that goes, the whole bible explains it with all the
subdivisions of that law.

lets start with the last 6-love for our fellowman.

Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

is it now ok to dishonor our parents because we are no longer "under law"? or should we seek to honor them even more because we are now a child of God and want to glorify Him?

how about, Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill? Jesus said if we hate in our heart we have broken this commandment. is it now ok to act out our anger when it wasnt ok before Jesus death? wasnt Jesus death caused by anger and hatred which led the people to kill Jesus?

Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. is it now ok for you to have affairs? or is it now ok for your wife to have affairs?

Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal. can i now go take whatever i want from whoever i want?

Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. can i now go about slandering whomever?

werent the 10 commandments meant to prevent this: Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and
to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

if i am stealing, killing and destroying my neighbor how is he going to have life and that more abundantly?

so, yes, my dear brother, i think the 10 commandments are still in effect. i think they are very good laws and see no reason why they should be nailed to the cross. if the united states decided to do away with all its laws that protect us i would run as fast as i could hoping i could get out before a person who is into murdering got me. as for my possessions im sure the thieves would have taken them the second the laws were repealed.

teresa

Then they have to wonder that KJV, NKJV, NASB, NIV, YLT etc Bible translaters do not leap off of that cliff with them and declare that the word used there is "Sunday".

Also as pointed out in Acts and in 1cor 16 where ALL agree that week-day-one is being identified - Kuriake is not used at all.

All Greek Lexicons agree - Kuriakos - "belonging to the Lord or related to the Lord ". It would be hard for them to argue that the reason all Greek Scholars agree on this is because they are all Seventh-day Adventists or that SDAs are the authors of all Greek Lexicons.

As Rosangela pointed out already - a late 6th century "custom" was to also label week-day-one with that term. But since John was not writing his letter in the 6th century A.D we don't bother with that point.

Did they ever come up with a response to this point?

in Christ,

Bob

In Galatians 4 Paul makes the argument that Christ was "born under the law" and kept the law perfectly.

In Matt 5 Christ stated "I did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill the law" thus He too claimed he would be keeping the Law perfectly.

There is no point in Christ's statement above where he argues that "I am teaching people to break the law just as I do for breaking the law is the perfect way to fulfill the law". Rather Christ argues that since the time of Moses at Sinai the priests were obligated to serve/minister before God on Sabbath and that it was part of their holy obligation on Sabbath. That was an OT age when even the most wildly speculative evangelical today would admit that the law of God was in full force. Christ argues that such godly service on Sabbath did not violate the intent on that day. He also argues that when he or his disciples do work on Sabbath in preaching the Gospel they too qualify just as priests before God since HE IS the Messiah.

Those who argue that Christ needed to come "teach us" how to break His Sabbath are not reading all the Bible that could be read on that point.

As it turns out - mankind has never needed "help" in finding ways to break the law of God. And that was not Christ's mission according to scripture.

in Christ,

Bob

James, what if Revelation 1:10 said, I was in the Spirit on Tuesday?

Would that change the meaning of the message? Would that make a difference?

James,

In looking back to where you asked the second question, I see where I messed up. Everyone continued talking about your first question and it wasn't until two pages later did someone respond to your second question. By that time.... the two became one in my mind.



James, it seems to me you have implied that the people you have been talking to have disagreed with the Bible (up to Rev 1:10), been difficult to reason with, argumentative, "hot". Teresa responds when she discusses similar things with others, they become angry.

As you have seen here, neither the Bible nor history supports Sunday being the Sabbath (Rev 1:10 included). Only late tradition. Why do you think people become unreasonable and angry when you suggest the Sabbath isn't Sunday?

What do you think is their motivation?

People who sin are “under the law”. We are under condemnation of law when we break the law. And, according to you, “we break the law moment by moment, hourly and daily”. According to your own testimony, therefore, we are “under the law” all the time. How, then, can you confidently say, “no, brother, we are not under the law”? Do you see the problem with your words?


Your testimony above seems to imply that we are free to break the law all the time, in spite of the fact the law is still very much in effect. If, as you say, we break the law all time, how can we be free to keep it? And, if we are not free to keep it, what difference does it make?

God's writing the Ten Commandments with His finger seems to be evidence.

my brother if anyone is under any kind of illusion-delusion-that they do not sin they are in for a rude awakening when Christ returns. their estimation of the law and Christlikeness is very, very low.

aaron probably has a better understanding of what all the law and gospel entails than one who thinks they do not sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

i know a man who honestly did not believe he sinned. everyone around him knew he had particular sins but he had blinded and deceived himself. i hope noone here has reached that state.