1.This doesn't have to do with this thread.
2.I've discussed this at great length with you in the past.
3.I've given you suggestions on how to pursue the study of this subject, which you've completely ignored. You just want to go about it the way you want to, with no regard for my desires or suggestions. I went along with what you wanted for months and months, and dozens and dozens of posts.



That death is the inevitable result of sin is explained in DA 764. The explanation there seems very clear to me. I don't see the difficulty here. Saying that Y is the inevitable of X should be an easy principle to grasp.

Regarding the "light of the glory of God," I explained that "light" = "revelation" and "glory of God" = "God's character." The idea that the glory of God is His character I got from Ellen White. That "light" = "revelation" I got from pondering the phrase, and the fact that she says that the light of the glory of God gives life to the righteous. I thought about how that could happen, and came to the conclusion I did.

What convinced me the interpretation was correct was the very next sentence, which speaks of Christ as "the revealer of the God's character."



It depends upon how you put things. You seem to me to put things in such a way that has God acting arbitrarily, and that makes sin to be innocuous. It is this that I've reacted against.

I gave as an analogy the idea that the air is poisonous, and God provides a gas mask. A person takes off the gas mask and dies. What caused the person's death? One could say that breathing did, or one could say that the poison did. I'm saying it's the poison. In this analogy, what's analogous to the poison? Sin.

The problem is sin, not God's character. The revelation of God's character is only a problem for the wicked because of sin. There is nothing inherently destructive about God's character.

In this analogy, what's analogous to the one who takes off the mask? I say, God. I think MM and GC will agree. Do you agree?


Yes, the problem is sin. The solution is to eradicate it.

God's character is the agent that eradicates sin. Hence, those who cling to sin, despite God's love, will be eradicated along with it. So, the wicked have a problem with God's character, a fatal problem. In contrast, God's character gives life to the holy.

But something that I disagree with is the idea that sin eradicates itself, and therefore, solves itself. If that was the case, then sin could have been solved by God leaving sin to eradicate itself.

I'm pretty sure that everyone will agree that such a solution is not optimal, since it offers no hope to the sinner. But while some may agree that sin eradicates itself, I believe that sin can only be eradicated by God's active participation.

Amen! That sin results in death due to the presence of God in judgment is a major reason why sinners suffer and die.

To Arnold and Mike in the last two posts...I heartily agree with both of you. Do we have enough of a quorum yet?

The fact is, the Bible teaches that God IS a fire. The Bible also says that the righteous will walk in this fire and not be burned. It further says that the ungodly will be burned/consumed in this Fire. The Bible further teaches that this Fire is eternal. God is the only Being said to "inhabit eternity." This is why many have understood, incorrectly, that hell will last forever. Hell will not. The Fire will.

It is, therefore, upon a multitude of scriptures (which I have earlier posted somewhere, but can repost if need be) that I base my firm belief that God Himself will commit the final act of justice in cleansing the Universe of sin--by the fire of His own Eternal Presence. In fact, God will but reveal Himself, that all may behold His glory. The righteous, having already been purified and refined, free of all sin, will be able to stand in the judgment. The ungodly, however, will be consumed until they no longer exist, each one paying the penalty for his own sins.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

It seems clear to me that DA 764 is making the point, as clearly as possible (by repeating it some 9 or 10 times) that it is not God, but those who reject God, who do this. For example:





I agree with this, in that it is the truth regarding God's character, or, in other word, the light of the glory of God, which decides the Great Controversy.



This has always been what's needed to happen. This is what God has been fighting for from the beginning. He can't speed it up to make it happen sooner, because it's dependent upon the revelation and acceptance of truth.



Before the truth can be laid out before the entire universe, which includes the wicked in the second resurrection, it must be laid out here.



One could say that sin eradicates itself like a parasite kills its host. Is this what you had in mind? (that is, is this what you are disagreeing with)



I don't know what this means. If you're saying God has to set people on fire to get rid of sin, I certainly disagree with that. The above quote, "God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life." doesn't seem to indicate the necessity of active participation on the part of God, if setting people on fire is what you have in mind here. Indeed, the whole section of DA 764 looks to be explicitly arguing against this idea.

So sin wouldn't result in death if God just left the wicked alone? Sin isn't deadly? God has to take an external action to get rid of it (by killing those who do it)?

This is true. He's not a literal fire, however.



Sin ruins a person's character, so they cannot abide in God's presence.



Right!



Yes!



Agreed. This also agrees with the following:



The lost die because they have ruined their character by choosing sin over the Holy Spirit.



Since God is the eternal fire, which is agape, this just means that God will be Himself. Again, from DA 764:



God has had to act to prevent Satan and his followers to perish as a result of their choices. They cannot abide with the everlasting burnings. Had God not taken this action, to restrain the results of their choice, it would have appeared that their death was due to a direct action on God's part to destroy them, as opposed to being the inevitable result of sin.



I agree with this, seeing this as being a natural consequence of the choices of the wicked, as opposed to an arbitrary or externally imposed action on the part of God, which seems to me to be precisely what DA 764 is arguing.

Sin isn't deadly on its own. God is the agent who will cause the eternal death of the sinners. This is proven by the actions that God was required to take against Adam and Eve, in forcing them to depart from the Garden of Eden, so as not to partake of the Tree of Life and become immortal sinners.

The very fact that the possibility of an immortal sinner existed is proof that sin itself is not deadly.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

This appears to be the only part of my earlier post you disagreed with...is that correct?

I guess I would answer your statement with a question:

Can we also say that God is love, but not literal love?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Punishment is necessary. Otherwise, the first death would suffice. True, sinning can cause negative consequences. But such consequences are more like discipline and less like punishment. In addition to experiencing negative consequences punishment is also required. It's not enough to feel rotten because you committed adultery and had the husband killed in combat.

So, no, sin doesn't naturally, automatically kill sinners like drinking a lethal dose of arsenic causes people to die. God had to deny sinners access to the tree of life "lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever". There is more to sinning than merely suffering and dying because you cannot access the tree of life. Punishment is also required.

Also, since it is the light of the glory of God that, like a fire, consumes sinners with their sins, God must, obviously, be physically present at judgment. God does not set them on fire per se; instead, they consume away like Nadab and Abihu. The radiant firelight of God's person and presence is permitted to consume them according to their sinfulness. Sin is the fuel, God is the fire, sinners are the stove.

"And any deviation from the express directions of God in connection with His holy service was punishable with death. {Con 80.1} "Nadab and Abihu were slain by the fire of God's wrath for their intemperance in the use of wine. {2SM 412.4} "Fire from his presence destroyed them in their sin. {4aSG 125.1} "For this sin a fire went out from the Lord and devoured them in the sight of the people. {PP 359.2} "God consumed them by fire for their positive disregard of His express directions. {Con 81.1}