Roseangela, fair enough. But please note that you haven't quoted the Bible to support your attempt to harmonize Sister White's insights. In such cases, where it appears she has contradicted the Bible, the best policy is to figure out a way to reconcile the two sources of divine inspiration. I have chosen one way to reconcile her insights with the Bible, and you have chosen an opposite way. I guess we'll learn the truth when it happens (hopefully we'll be watching from inside the New Jerusalem).

Mike,

I was not trying to reconcile sister White with the Bible, but sister White with sister White. In some passages she says fire will come upon the wicked and consume them, and in some passages she says the presence of God, or His glory, will consume them. But I, too, do hope we will be on the right side of the walls of the New Jerusalem to see what will really happen.

Tom,

Well, the subject of the thread is: can sin be destroyed by destroying sinners? It seems to me that, after all the inhabitants of the universe have seen the true character of both God and Satan, yes, sin can be destroyed by destroying sinners, because the sinner is the only place where sin can exist.

[ February 17, 2005, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: Rosangela ]

Tom, it looks like you and I are in agreement with Roseangela's conclusion above: Since we are Adventists we view man as an indivisible unit as you point out. Therefore just as the righteous have incorporated righteousness into their characters and take their characters to heaven, in the same way sinner have incorporated evil into theirs. Therefore the destruction of sin cannot be separated from the destruction of sinners. When the final decree is issued 'Let him who is holy be holy still . . .' and the converse is said of the sinner, the identification and inculcation of sin in the character of the sinner is irreversible. In order to destroy sin, the sinner must be destroyed.

PS. I didn’t mean to imply that sinners will be given immortal bodies. I was pointing out that somehow things will change so that they retain their mental faculties because their modified bodies have the capacity to sustain them for so long as a particle exists.

I, too, agree with Mark and Roseangela - God will will destroy sin by destroying sinners. Yes, theoretically the potential for sin will exist throughout eternity, but in reality FMAs will never choose to sin, therefore, for all intents and purposes, sin will be eliminated in the lake of fire with the unsaved.

Whether or not the lake of fire is symbolic of the glory of God (Tom's idea), or the glory of God is the ignition source (Roseangela's idea), or simply literal fire and brimstone, we may never know until the day it happens. Whatever happens, and however it happens, this much we can be sure of - the wrath of God is love, and holy, just and good.

When the unsaved are dead and gone, we shall rejoice with the unfallen angels and other beings. Not only because they are worthy of death, but because they have been put out of their misery. Sin, sickness, suffering and death will be no more. Amen!

As I see it, if sin exists in the mind (and it does), God can only destroy sin either
1) with the consent of the mind, or
2) by destroying that mind.

I think Adventists have more to learn about the judgement of evil and the wicked at the end. There are passages that we have never closely examined in the Bible in Ezekiel and in Zechariah for example that reveal quite a bit more, but that is another topic.

(I am reposting this here from another thread):

The expression “the glory of …” is used repeatedly throughout the Bible, and it means a variety of things. Nowhere in the Bible or the SOP, however, does it refer to the “glory of God” as the fire and brimstone that will be rained down upon the unsaved at the end of the millennium. Notice the following passages and my personal comments:

Exodus
24:17 And the sight of the glory of the LORD [was] like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.

NOTE: the glory of God was “like” a devouring fire.

2 Chronicles
7:1 Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the LORD filled the house.
7:2 And the priests could not enter into the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD had filled the LORD'S house.
7:3 And when all the children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glory of the LORD upon the house, they bowed themselves with their faces to the ground upon the pavement, and worshipped, and praised the LORD, [saying], For [he is] good; for his mercy [endureth] for ever.

NOTE: here the fire from heaven and the glory of the LORD are two entirely separate things.

2 Thessalonians
1:6 Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

NOTE: the flaming fire mentioned here is not part of the glory of God.

Acts
2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

NOTE: the cloven tongues were “like” fire.

Hebrews
12:29 For our God [is] a consuming fire.

NOTE: the fire mentioned here says nothing about the glory of God.

SC 17
It is no arbitrary decree on the part of God that excludes the wicked from heaven; they are shut out by their own unfitness for its companionship. The glory of God would be to them a consuming fire. They would welcome destruction, that they might be hidden from the face of Him who died to redeem them.

NOTE: “would be to them a consuming fire” is another way of saying “like” a consuming fire. The use of the article “a” instead of “the” implies likeness.

GC 543
Its purity, holiness, and peace would be torture to them; the glory of God would be a consuming fire. They would long to flee from that holy place. They would welcome destruction, that they might be hidden from the face of Him who died to redeem them… Like the waters of the Flood the fires of the great day declare God's verdict that the wicked are incurable.

NOTE: here she compares the fires of the great day to the waters of the Flood, which implies a literal fire.