M: You seem to be suggesting the final judgment will not involve “his strange act” "the act of punishment". How do you see the following description fitting in with your conclusion:

K: MM, should we go with what we think is a strange act or how it's been defined as? If we aren't going to use Ellen White's definition, could one think other things are definitions of strange acts?

M: We are discussing this quote - “The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits.” You said this must be interpreted to mean holy angels cause death and destruction, when God commands, by withdrawing their protection and permitting evil angels to do it. You also said the death and destruction evil angels cause represents the justice of God. God commands holy angels to exercise destructive power, which you say happens when evil angels do it.

T: What does GC 36 say?

M: We are discussing this quote - “The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits.” You said this must be interpreted to mean holy angels cause death and destruction, when God commands, by withdrawing their protection and permitting evil angels to do it. You also said the death and destruction evil angels cause represents the justice of God. God commands holy angels to exercise destructive power, which you say happens when evil angels do it.

T: What does GC 36 say?

M:Again, we are discussing this quote - “The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits.” (GC 614) She clearly says "God commands". Citing GC 36 implies you believe holy angels exercising "destructive power . . . when God commands" must be interpreted to mean God commands holy angels to withdraw their protection and to ensure evil angels do not exceed the justice and punishment He permits and commands.

I assume you read the passages I posted and took note of how she applied the phrases "strange act" and "act of punishment". If so, I'm sure you couldn't help noticing she didn't limit it to the seven last plagues.

M: We are discussing this quote - “The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits.” You said this must be interpreted to mean holy angels cause death and destruction, when God commands, by withdrawing their protection and permitting evil angels to do it. You also said the death and destruction evil angels cause represents the justice of God. God commands holy angels to exercise destructive power, which you say happens when evil angels do it.

T: What does GC 36 say?

M: Again, we are discussing this quote - “The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits.” (GC 614) She clearly says "God commands". Citing GC 36 implies you believe holy angels exercising "destructive power . . . when God commands" must be interpreted to mean God commands holy angels to withdraw their protection and to ensure evil angels do not exceed the justice and punishment He permits and commands.

T: This is how you read GC 36? Can you quote something from GC 36 which expresses this thought please?

The Jews had forged their own fetters; they had filled for themselves the cup of vengeance. In the utter destruction that befell them as a nation, and in all the woes that followed them in their dispersion, they were but reaping the harvest which their own hands had sown. Says the prophet: "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;" "for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity." Hosea 13:9; 14:1. Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work. By stubborn rejection of divine love and mercy, the Jews had caused the protection of God to be withdrawn from them, and Satan was permitted to rule them according to his will. The horrible cruelties enacted in the destruction of Jerusalem are a demonstration of Satan's vindictive power over those who yield to his control. {GC 35.3}

We cannot know how much we owe to Christ for the peace and protection which we enjoy. It is the restraining power of God that prevents mankind from passing fully under the control of Satan. The disobedient and unthankful have great reason for gratitude for God's mercy and long-suffering in holding in check the cruel, malignant power of the evil one. But when men pass the limits of divine forbearance, that restraint is removed. God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. Every ray of light rejected, every warning despised or unheeded, every passion indulged, every transgression of the law of God, is a seed sown which yields its unfailing harvest. The Spirit of God, persistently resisted, is at last withdrawn from the sinner, and then there is left no power to control the evil passions of the soul, and no protection from the malice and enmity of Satan. The destruction of Jerusalem is a fearful and solemn warning to all who are trifling with the offers of divine grace and resisting the pleadings of divine mercy. Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty. {GC 36.1}

The Saviour's prophecy concerning the visitation of judgments upon Jerusalem is to have another fulfillment, of which that terrible desolation was but a faint shadow. In the fate of the chosen city we may behold the doom of a world that has rejected God's mercy and trampled upon His law. Dark are the records of human misery that earth has witnessed during its long centuries of crime. The heart sickens, and the mind grows faint in contemplation. Terrible have been the results of rejecting the authority of Heaven. But a scene yet darker is presented in the revelations of the future. The records of the past,--the long procession of tumults, conflicts, and revolutions, the "battle of the warrior . . . with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood" (Isaiah 9:5),--what are these, in contrast with the terrors of that day when the restraining Spirit of God shall be wholly withdrawn from the wicked, no longer to hold in check the outburst of human passion and satanic wrath! The world will then behold, as never before, the results of Satan's rule. {GC 36.2}

M: Please explain the difference between what you wrote above and the following insights (highlighted in red in a previous post): "They do not believe a merciful God who made men will consume them with fire because they do not believe the warnings given. This, they reason, is not in accordance with God. . . . The plea may be made that a loving Father would not see His children suffering the punishment of God by fire while He had the power to relieve them."

T: Please consider what I've quoted from GC 36, and 37. The differences between this passage, and what you quoted as the view she is speaking against, are the differences.

M: Do you really want to leave it up to me to ascertain what you believe? Okay, I'll give it a go. Yes, you believe the plea may be made that God is too kind, loving, and merciful to consume sinners with fire.

T: Please be reasonable. I have explained in great detail what I believe, point by point. I've quoted GC 36, and 37. I presume you agree with the passages. I presume you disagree with the red highlighted views. So do I.

M: I assume you read the passages I posted and took note of how she applied the phrases "strange act" and "act of punishment". If so, I'm sure you couldn't help noticing she didn't limit it to the seven last plagues.

K: No I didn't. To both questions. That's because you commonly list a bunch of quotes which are not relevant to what is being discussed and then make no comment to help guide the reader regarding as to how it relates to the discussion. After re-reviewing your quotes, I still find no mention of "strange act" in them excepting for the Signs of the Times paragraph. Did I miss any others? And that one says nothing towards when it is. Since the same statement is made in the quote I gave which does tell when it is, would it not be reasonable to conclude this quote is referring to the same time? Do you have information which says otherwise? Because I want to know before I go and make a fool of myself.

The forbearance that God has exercised toward the wicked, emboldens men in transgression; but their punishment will be none the less certain and terrible for being long delayed. "The Lord shall rise up as in Mount Perazim, He shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His work, His strange work; and bring to pass His act, His strange act." Isaiah 28:21. To our merciful God the act of punishment is a strange act. "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live." Ezekiel 33:11. The Lord is "merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, . . . forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin." Yet He will "by no means clear the guilty." Exodus 34:6, 7. While He does not delight in vengeance, He will execute judgment upon the transgressors of His law. He is forced to do this, to preserve the inhabitants of the earth from utter depravity and ruin. In order to save some He must cut off those who have become hardened in sin. "The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked." Nahum 1:3. By terrible things in righteousness He will vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. And the very fact of His reluctance to execute justice testifies to the enormity of the sins that call forth His judgments and to the severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor. {PP 628.1}

But while inflicting judgment, God remembered mercy. The Amalekites were to be destroyed, but the Kenites, who dwelt among them, were spared. This people, though not wholly free from idolatry, were worshipers of God and were friendly to Israel. Of this tribe was the brother-in-law of Moses, Hobab, who had accompanied the Israelites in their travels through the wilderness, and by his knowledge of the country had rendered them valuable assistance. {PP 628.2}

Grace and mercy will then descend from the throne, and justice will take their place. {RH, January 1, 1889 par. 1}

The Angel of Mercy was then folding her wings to step down from the golden throne and give place to Justice and swift-coming judgment. {2SP 394.1}

But mercy and truth are promised only to the contrite and obedient. God has said that justice and judgment are the habitation of his throne; and those who are disobedient and rebellious will not escape the visitation of his just anger. {ST, March 6, 1884 par. 2}

But let no one flatter himself that he may transgress the commandments, and yet receive the favor of God. In the government of God, justice and grace stand side by side. The law cannot be transgressed with impunity. Justice and judgment are the habitation of his throne. {ST, October 10, 1892 par. 2}

M: Please explain the difference between what you wrote above and the following insights (highlighted in red in a previous post): "They do not believe a merciful God who made men will consume them with fire because they do not believe the warnings given. This, they reason, is not in accordance with God. . . . The plea may be made that a loving Father would not see His children suffering the punishment of God by fire while He had the power to relieve them."

T: Please consider what I've quoted from GC 36, and 37. The differences between this passage, and what you quoted as the view she is speaking against, are the differences.

M: Do you really want to leave it up to me to ascertain what you believe? Okay, I'll give it a go. Yes, you believe the plea may be made that God is too kind, loving, and merciful to consume sinners with fire.

T: Please be reasonable. I have explained in great detail what I believe, point by point. I've quoted GC 36, and 37. I presume you agree with the passages. I presume you disagree with the red highlighted views. So do I.

M:I get the distinct impression you believe God is too kind, loving, and merciful to consume sinners with fire. Have I misunderstood your view?

The fact you don't read my posts is one of the reasons why I usually don't enjoy studying with you.

This principle (mercy ends, justice begins) is not limited to the seven last plagues.

I get the distinct impression you believe God is too kind, loving, and merciful to consume sinners with fire. Have I misunderstood your view?