True, but I was trying to put it in a way MM could relate. Because, as he would not know something with absolute certainty, God also doesn't know everything with absolute certainty. At least using "as" as to relate to.

Though I can see your ‘relating attempt’ here kland, I personally can only see that such a comparison in entirely moot by the fact that it is a comparison between what God would be able to do vs. what (now fallen) man can do. Many passages in the Bible will speak to the utter futile of such a Divinity-Creation comparison (e.g, Isa 55:8; cf. Psa 50:21). To me that is equivalent to saying that: ‘just as a car (barring artificial intelligence presetting by a human) does not know where it is going, then the driver also does not know where s/he is going.’

So that is why I see the only valid way of supporting this view is not through anthropomorphic or philosophical arguments/rationales but by what is concretely expressed in the Bible. If the Bible actually taught that: (1) the future existed in any tangible form, or (2) God tangibly knew that future in any degree/extent, then it would easily be possible that ‘God could know everything with certainty (i.e., the Future, as He, being Omniscient, does now everything (in the present and pass) there is to be known with certainty) while man does not’.

God is not bound by space or time. He existed for an eternity before He created time and space. Nevertheless, He can interact with created beings in time and space, even more so now that Jesus is human and divine. He exists in the past, present, and future simultaneously. Time and space, as we know it, having a beginning and no end, is like a capsule surrounded by timeless, intangible eternity, the dwelling place of God. There are two eternities - ours and His. Eternity, as we know it, fits comfortably on a slide on God's microscope. He is, in the ultimate sense, omnipresent, which enables Him to know the future like history. He knows the end from the beginning because both the end and beginning exist. He has known from the beginning of our time what each person will think, say, and do because, from His perspective, our eternity has already played out. He doesn't know what each person will do because He's a good guesser; instead, He knows precisely what each person has done because He knows the end from the beginning.

Honestly, with all due respect, Mountain Man, I seriously could not help but laugh as I struggled to read through your defense of the Classical View of Foreknowledge here because non of these arguments are actually supported by Biblical facts (and that includes SOP “I was shown” statements). Merely stating/restating them does not make them a truth. I became strikingly aware of this between 1999-2002 as I then engaged on an indepth and original study of this Theological topic. The resulting study of the Biblical “Foreplanning ” View is posted on my blog, (which I don’t see/think you had first/previously considered.) These philosophical arguments of the Classical View hold no water and they also impinge the Character of God. Fundamentally and for starters, why proceed with a sinful world when you know “for a fact” that it could result in over 99% of all persons being born ending up suffering punishment in Hell?? Why not just show to the angels at the first inkling of Lucifer’s nefarious intentions a panoramic video in Heaven of “all that will surely take place” if (or is it “when” [if this is really ‘the already existing Future’??!]) and destroy him, sparing the lives of billions, even trillions!??

NJK, we may have to live with our opposing views of God.

Cordially and mutually agreed Mountain Man... However I just personally knew, and concretely now know, that I could not “live”, accurately understand and soundly/sequiturly explain the Bible/GC (particularly seeming errors/inconsistencies), evangelistically preach, and variously minister with the Traditional/Classical View of Foreknowledge!

NJK, how long did God exist alone before He created the universe and FMAs (free moral agents)?

By the way Mountain Man, if you are interested, I am open and willing to further discuss this topic on God’s Foreknowledge in this Maritime... thread. There is indeed much that can be brought to the table from purely a substantive Biblical level, vs. a philosophical one. I always prefer to deal with more objective, substantive vs. the more subjective, ideological.

Eternally, of course (e.g., Psa 90:2; 93:2; Hag 1:12). However, if that is what you are, as common, also getting at, that does not establish a distinct time, but simply one that existed prior to when God created other beings. Then His time simply concurrently continued with the same one of these ones.

[As I had said, before noticing your post here, I think this discussion should be continued on that other thread, as it will may get involved and completely off-topic here. Other watching posters there would also probably participate]. Also I recommend first reading my (interactive) blog post on this topic. It is not fair to me to have to rediscuss all of these point again. This ‘God vs. our Time’ issue was discussed there. If, however, you then ‘still do not understand something’, I’ll clarify it here.

The idea that time and space existed before God created FMAs is new to me.