Does EGW contradict herself here?

Please note that when speaking of the 1335-days EGW accepted that they were fulfilled and she places them in the LAST DAYS and links them to the time when Satan is blinding the eyes (of God's people).



Again please note the LAST DAYS context:


Some may be tempted to assume that the 1335-days are not for the last days, but to be understood in the last days. That view is as Satan would desire it to be, but it contradicts EGW's statement that the light "Daniel received direct from God was given especially for these last days."

Satan is a shrewed foe. Has he stopped trying to bring error into the Church?

If the ministers and doctors were doing the work of bringing errors into the church when the prophet was alive, did that process miraculously stop after her death?

His child, I already responded to these arguments of yours See Post #133952. Just repeating them doesn’t make them so.

Seriously, constructively yet frankly speaking Henry, “Wisdom” is transparently and objectively demonstrated and proven and is rooted/derived from actual Truth. So unless your interpretations/views can pass this Truth test, then there is no need to jump to a “Wise One” self-knighting



For the reason, I state below, I am actually seeing your interpretations as being “superficial”, spiritually speaking. Like most people who are saying that the end is here, e.g., David Gates, see my detailed commentary on him, his views and his ministry here, you “expediently” sacrifice proper and accurate factualization and Biblical exegesis in order to have a timely fulfillment.



I may look through that discussion in some detail however your Bible study appraoch and resulting conclusion which I have seen thus far, including the above radio interviews do not impress me as being Biblical.



I do recall that news story.



I listened to your radio interview in detail. Take it as a warning, but I am sure many people would have come to the same succinct understanding and conclusion as above. There just is not spiritual substance to your view. To me it is like empty (spiritual) calories. Your forced attempt to have all Daniel and Revelation prophecies refulfilled and that with time seems uncalled for and contrived to me.



If your read my recounted experience over especially the past 15+ years (i.e., since (Net) 1996), (see here) you’ll see that I also make the same understood statement of being led by God in my present research, writing & ministry work. I have no problem per se of people making such claims, per se, probably out of experiential empathy, however as I showed with David Gate in that blog post, such a claim is Biblically ascertainable/verifiable. The proof is always in the fruits and if God is indeed leading you to present Biblical truth then I should not have any problem having you views easily, clearly and readily proven to be Biblical. However in just this thread, your dating of Ezra’s journey does not pass a Truth test.

And, as a personal advice, from lessons learned in my own experience in research and writing and other, indeed as repeatedly seen in the Bible, both with groups and individuals, just because God calls someone that does not suddenly make them infallible, incapable of doing anything wrong or beyond correction. As I understand it, this “elected”/called has the added duty, burden and responsibility to make their ‘calling and election sure’. As recounted from my experience, when I felt that God was calling me to the ministry, even beyond formal SDA pastoring, I did not have much, if actually any, Scholarly Biblical knowledge beyond just what was said in my NKJV and a concordance. However as my aim was to share Bible truths with non-SDA, I put myself in their shoes and everytime I got to something I did not see was transparently proven, I made it my duty to dig deeper until I arrived at the concrete truth. It has been quite a learning experience. Key to all of this and by God’s guidance was going to Andrews University where I could access their great Seminary Library as well as the more voluminous one at the nearby Notre Dame University when Andrews did not have a resource. So, as I gather you live near Southern Adventist University, I would recommend that you engage in deepening/verifying/validating/substantiating your studies with some of the great resources that it has. (I have visited their Library in the past. Also browsed through it online).

All this to say, and I see signs that you are willing to do the needed work when you discover its necessity, that God does not call us to remain where we were when he called us, including intellectually. And, as seen with the unlearned EGW, if God calls someone to do a work, it is because He saw that this person potentially can fully and properly accomplish their given task. For starters, as you write on the prophecies of Daniel, I recommend the Owusu-Antwi book as it is a great launching pad into deeper scholarly work, as I experienced myself.

As I see it, if you keep asking and duly properly answering the question “why” in Biblical Research, and always give the benefit of the doubt/deference to God, you end up with the concrete Biblical Truth.



Interesting however I would need to see if it and its substantiating details point to a Biblical conclusion.

In regard to Revelation 7' Heads, I have found this rev. 17 Biblical study [36:40ff] by New Zealand SDA Daniel Pel [http://livingwater.no/english/Audio/Revelationseminar6.mp3] to be quite Biblical in that he is both not glibly/surfacely/superficially regarding/looking for a (beast) head as a literal head, but along the symbolic lines of a “power” which I’ll add to be a “controlling mentality”, and he also is rightly looking for the End Time fulfillments from the Historical fulfillment and not entirely new and quasi-arbitrary fulfillment.

By the way, and seriously, your prophetic studies and conclusion strike me as Dispensationalist Christian sensationalist presentations. I.e., As “Fast Food” Prophetic fulfillment vs. a healthy, choicely prepared and well cooked, Biblical “meal”.



I did read your story before and despite the fact that, unless God actively/targetedly did this tornado event in Alabama/Tennessee, (which I don’t see a extraordinary reason for), and unless there is a meteorological way to see that a tornado will form months in advance and also know its precise path, given my Biblical understanding on God and the Future leads me to understand that this was not necessarily a God warned/preempted development, though a general warning could apply here if weather condition allowed God to see that a tornado would form in your area, however that would actually require that you would have been told/shown in advance to leave that “path of a future tornado house”. I would notwithstandingly say that if this was a preemptive saving action by God, it does not automatically mean that you are right. That is something that is concretely and independently demonstrated by verifiable Biblical facts and sound Biblical conclusion.

(Along these lines, my sister who live in that area was credited, to what due credit reality I am not sure, by her hospital co-worker for saving them from destructions during that tornado storm as when they all saw a tornado coming right at them, she prayed out loud for God to spare them and the tornado ended up changing course.)

Nothing personal here, I just think/see/believe that you could do much more/better.

His Child, those are good EGW quotes on the refulfillment of prophecies in Post #133976 however for the reasons stated in this thread, I do not see that she also include time elements in the refulfillments. I also do not defaultly see that every single prophecy needs to be refulfilled. For your claim in regards to the 70 Weeks in Post #133977, as there is only one Christ/Messiah, you’ll need Jesus to die again!?? There is also no intermediary events in the related 2300 days except for the end which only is indicating when the Sanctuary will begin to be cleansed from GC defilements. I don’t see a Spiritual/Theological reason why it needs to be refulfilled. This Spiritual/Theological “necessity” is what guides my view on prophecies that are likely to be refulfilled and not a blanket assumption that every single one must be. As seen in the partial fulfillment of the Olivet Discourse first in ca. 70 A.D. and then later also partially in the late 1700's early-mid 1800's a refulfillment needs only to involve pertinently applicable segments of it, and not necessarily every element, especially now the time elements.

The key to all of this, as seen in Church History is to seek to do what God expects of us and adhere to, and advancing in, God Light of Truth. (Cf. Dan 12:10; cf. 3, 4). The applicable portions of prophecies will then be automatically fulfilled by/through God’s guidance.

I had already explained why I don’t see EGW’s mentioning of a prophecy that has a time element as a belief that the time element in it is to be refulfilled. Read on and see my response.



I had also already explained the 2SM 73 (1885) “1884" claim. It involved 40 years of probation and not the 2300 days. You need to substantiate your claim that it involves the 2300 days.



In my expounding on all EGW quotes that I found on this issue and your view of ‘other times than the Second Coming’s’ I indeed I had left out this 10MR 270 quote as it relates to the Second Coming. If you are going to make delayed answers, you need to first read through the end of the thread before replying as you are readdressing already dealt with issues.



As I already said and in more detail, you need to explain why EGW says “the longest reckoning” among other things.

Those are more examples kland of statements that we find hard to accept as they read.

But notice what happens if I insert two words into her quote.


That insertion seems consistent with other SOP statements that Daniel is to stand in his lot along with John at the end.

Here's another quote that we should all humbly bare in mind.

EGW Estates comment
Thank you for contacting the Ellen G. White Estate. Here is what I have sent to others who asked this question:

Other than in places where Mrs. White quotes a longer passage in Daniel which includes mention of the 1335 days, I know of only one reference to the 1335 days in her writings, though it appears in several places in her published writings (and on the CD-ROM). Here it is:



Manuscript Releases Volume Sixteen, p. 208

Title: To the Church in Brother Hastings' House



One week ago, last Sabbath, we had a very interesting meeting. Brother Hewit from Dead River was there. He came with a message to the effect that the destruction of the wicked and the sleep of the dead was an abomination within a shut door that a woman Jezebel, a prophetess had brought in and he believed that I was that woman, Jezebel. We told him of some of his errors in the past, that the 1335 days were ended and numerous errors of his. It had but little effect. His darkness was felt upon the meeting and it dragged.



This comes from Ellen G. White's Letter 28, 1850. She did not elaborate further here on the matter of the 1335 days.



The question for us is, Is the reference to the 1335 days part of the list of errors of Brother Hewit, or is it a correction to one of those errors? In other words, do we read the sentence as, "We told him of some of his errors in the past, [including the one] that the 1335 days were ended . . .", or do we read it as, "We told him of some of his errors in the past, [and] that the 1335 days were ended . . ."? If we understand her statement the first way, she is saying that in 1850 the 1335 days were not yet ended. If we take her statement the second way, she is asserting that they were already ended. Which way is it?



I believe that we should understand this statement in the second of the two ways--as an assertion from her that the 1335 days were already ended. I base this belief on two lines of evidence. First, a quick scan of the "Words of the Pioneers" database on our CD-ROM, which gives us convenient access to the writings of many other early Adventists (Seventh-day and otherwise), revealed that William Miller and Uriah Smith both taught that the 1335 days began at the same time as the 1290 days, that is, in AD 508. This would bring them to a close in the year 1843-1844. James White affirmed the same interpretation in the Review and Herald in the 1850s (and perhaps beyond, but the "Words of the Pioneers" thus far only takes the Review to 1863). So both before and after this statement by Mrs. White in 1850, prominent leaders in the Advent movement, including her own husband, were saying that the 1335 years had ended. Shall we understand Mrs. White, then, to be calling this belief an error? If so, why didn't she rebuke it in James White and in Uriah Smith?



Second, we have Mrs. White's own statements about prophetic time. Three of the most relevant appear together in the recent compilation, "Last Day Events," pp. 35-36. Here they are:



No Time Prophecy Beyond 1844



I plainly stated at the Jackson camp meeting to these fanatical parties that they were doing the work of the adversary of souls; they were in darkness. They claimed to have great light that probation would close in October, 1884. I there stated in public that the Lord had been pleased to show me that there would be no definite time in the message given of God since 1844.--2SM 73 (1885).

Our position has been one of waiting and watching, with no time-proclamation to intervene between the close of the prophetic periods in 1844 and the time of our Lord's coming.--10MR 270 (1888).

The people will not have another message upon definite time. After this period of time [Rev. 10:4-6], reaching from 1842 to 1844, there can be no definite tracing of the prophetic time. The longest reckoning reaches to the autumn of 1844.--7BC 971 (1900).



In light of these two lines of evidence, I believe we are on firm ground if we read Mrs. White's statement in 1850 as affirming, not denying, that the 1335 years had ended.



I hope you will find this helpful. Thank you for writing. God bless.



--------

William Fagal

This is a great post.

The two witnesses in the endtime are Daniel and Revelation.



My study has identified the endtime fulfillment of the literal 1260, 1290, and 1335 days. And we are now in the time of trouble spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

But those waiting and watching saints in 1888 were totally unprepared for the message of Righteousness by faith when it came. Thus we are warned to be cautious. And this quote is referring not to all prophecies relating to a definite time, but specifically to a definite time to intervene between 1844 that gives the day and hour of Christ's Advent.


The term "definite time" as used by EGW refers to the hour of Christ's Advent not ALL TIME PROPHECY.

In the context above she was reproving the world that placed all time proclamation on the same level and she was distinguishing that from the specific time proclamation that identifies the day and hour of Christ's Advent.



The quote above omits the context "in regard to a man who was setting time in 1884, and sending broadcast his arguments to prove his theories. The report of what he was doing was brought to me at the Jackson, Mich., camp-meeting, and I told the people they need not take heed to this man's theory; for the event he predicted would not take place. The times and the seasons God has put in his own power, and why has not God given us this knowledge?--Because we would not make a right use of it if he did. A condition of things would result from this knowledge among our people that would greatly retard the work of God in preparing a people to stand in the great day that is to come. We are not to live upon time excitement. "

mm, point #3 is specific counsel given regarding a man that was setting dates in 1884. He was in error. But to extrapolate this counsel from its setting and apply it to every person in every age is a pretext. Though we do not know the day and the hour, from Bible study, we can know that the abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel has been set up, Pope Benedict XVI is the last pope identified in Bible prophecy, Mr. Obama is identified in Bible prophecy as the last king from the earth (Daniel 7:17) and that the time of trouble has begun spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

But when this counsel is wrenched from its setting and presented as it is here, it is akin to crying "peace and safety" on the eve of sudden destruction. It is a false peace that is not of God, but that leads to the sleep of eternal death.



In another post I showed that EGW states the 42-months of Rev 13 were fulfilled in the past and the final fulfillment is to come in the last days. That is an instant of EGW citing definite time to intervene between 1844 and Christ's Advent. And above I have shown that she corrected the world's error of lumping all time prophecy together and that she separates time prophecy relating to the Second Advent of Christ from other time prophecies. So when we lump together what she separates, that action makes the Spirit of Prophecy contradict itself and the Bible.

The one instance where she cites a time prophecy that is to be applied after 1844 proves that she was not saying ALL TIME PROPHECY STOPPED IN 1844

The 3rd angel's message is not hung of time, but it is time to understand the Present Truth of this hour to give the right warning at the right time. The parable of the 10 virgins shows that 5 of the virgins did not wake in time. When it was too late they saw what their faith needed to see sooner. But for them it was too late!



De 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.