Yes, Jesus died soon, by Roman crucifixion standards, but He bore the sins of the world from birth. And, during His wilderness experience His suffering was not unlike Gethsemane. We cannot calculate Jesus' experience with our sin based on the moment they nailed Him to the cross. He started drinking the cup way before He finished it on the cross.

You forgot to comment on the other things I posted above, namely, immediate death is what God promised Adam And Eve, and the plan of salvation created a situation where we suffer a long slow death. What about it?

We all know that the theory, Once saved, always saved, is false. Well, so is, Once converted, always converted. Yes, there is a defining moment in time when we initially experience the miracle of rebirth. However, Sister White observed that it is rare among professing believers. Many, so many have not crucified self.

We are fit to enter the gates of heaven the moment we are born again. But no one will enter heaven with unconfessed, unforsaken, or so-called unknown, defective traits of character. Jesus will not change our character traits when He returns. People who retain all, or even one, defective trait of character are not fit for heaven. One cherished defect is enough to neutralize the entire gospel.

Even though we are born again without our former defective traits of character we must be converted anew every day. Paul said, I die daily, which does not mean, I sin daily. If we do not choose afresh to maintain our initial conversion, on a moment by moment basis, we are not fit for heaven. We must choose to stay converted, and we must make this choice every day, moment by moment.

Just because we were converted yesterday it doesn’t mean we are converted today. In order for yesterday’s conversion to count for today we must choose to be born again afresh, today. People who cannot seem to maintain the character of Christ, who seem to sin and repent, sin and repent, have not experienced true and genuine conversion. Self did not die.

UL 22
The uncertain experience of many professed Christians--sinning and repenting and continuing in the same dwarfed spiritual condition--is the result of worldliness and unholiness of life. The saving grace of Christ is designed for everyday life. Christ came not to save man in his sins, but from his sins. The principles of truth, abiding in the heart, will sanctify the life.--Manuscript 35, Jan. 8, 1893, "Publishing Work." {UL 22.6}

OHC 215
Genuine conversion is needed, not once in years, but daily. This conversion brings man into a new relation with God. Old things, his natural passions and hereditary and cultivated tendencies to wrong, pass away, and he is renewed and sanctified. But this work must be continual; for as long as Satan exists, he will make an effort to carry on his work. He who strives to serve God will encounter a strong undercurrent of wrong. His heart needs to be barricaded by constant watchfulness and prayer, or else the embankment will give way; and like a millstream, the undercurrent of wrong will sweep away the safeguard. No renewed heart can be kept in a condition of sweetness without the daily application of the salt of the Word. Divine grace must be received daily, or no man will stay converted. {OHC 215.2}

Hi Ikan!

Mike: You mean no, it's not a sin to see God's character in a false light and speak of it that way?

God winks at ignorance, but if a person knows the difference then they are guilty if they refuse the truth.

Tom: But it's still using God's name in vain, and bearing false witness, as well as leading others astray. It hardly seems right to assert that one who is falsely representing God has no defects of character.

Mike: Yes, Jesus died soon, by Roman crucifixion standards, but He bore the sins of the world from birth. And, during His wilderness experience His suffering was not unlike Gethsemane. We cannot calculate Jesus' experience with our sin based on the moment they nailed Him to the cross. He started drinking the cup way before He finished it on the cross.

Tom: It still leaves you millions of years short.

Mike: You forgot to comment on the other things I posted above, namely, immediate death is what God promised Adam And Eve, and the plan of salvation created a situation where we suffer a long slow death. What about it?

Tom: I did comment on this. You seem to have some specific point in mind, which I may not have commented on. What is it?

Do the following insights apply to the thief on the cross?

HP 160
Every soul that gains eternal life must be like Christ, "holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners" (Heb. 7:26). {HP 160.5}

MAR 53
God will accept nothing but purity and holiness; one spot, one wrinkle, one defect in the character, will forever debar them from heaven, with all its glories and treasures. {Mar 53.2}

HP 201
So perfect is the character represented which men must have in order to be Christ's disciples that the infidel has said that it is not possible for any human being to attain unto it. But no less a standard must be presented by all who claim to be children of God. Infidels know not that celestial aid is provided for all who seek for it by faith. Every provision has been made in behalf of every soul who shall seek to be a partaker of the divine nature and be complete in Jesus Christ. Every defect is to be discerned and cut away from the character with an unsparing decision. {HP 201.2}

LHU 346
A well-balanced character is formed by single acts well performed. One defect, cultivated instead of being overcome, makes the man imperfect, and closes against him the gate of the Holy City. He who enters heaven must have a character that is without spot or wrinkle or any such thing. Naught that defileth can ever enter there. In all the redeemed host not one defect will be seen. {LHU 346.4}

Let's be realistic:

That thief had the painful recognition of what he had been and Whom he was nailed next to.

The thief knew he was a gasp away from forever. Do you?
He had no fight for this world left in him. Do you?
He knew God was nailed right next to him. Do you?
The thief had no reputation to protect! Do you?
No self-centeredness, no excuses for his defects,cultural and natural weaknesses to gloss over or pretend to free of. Do you?

You and I have revival and reformation time left on our life cards; he did not. You are far more culpable for the light you have than he had.

His "death-bed salvation" is a rarity, an anomaly surely recorded in the Word for many other reasons other than the Church Fathers theory of instantly imparted perfection. He got the imputed gift: no time for the imparted. But we have more time to gain both, if we "hunger and thirst".

What other reasons was the thief remembered in Scripture for our benefit, then?

Simply look at the thief's request: it concerned when, what and where of the dying King's kingdom.

Good point. How does the teaching about imputed and imparted righteousness fit into this subject of character defects?

Righteousness within is testified to by righteousness without. He who is righteous within is not hard-hearted and unsympathetic, but day by day he grows into the image of Christ, going on from strength to strength. He who is being sanctified by the truth will be self-controlled, and will follow in the footsteps of Christ until grace is lost in glory. The righteousness by which we are justified is imputed; the righteousness by which we are sanctified is imparted. The first is our title to heaven, the second is our fitness for heaven.--Review and Herald, June 4, 1895. {MYP 35.2}

Tom, here are points you didn’t comment on:

Psalm
78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels [among them].

1BC 1104
Christ, in counsel with His Father, instituted the system of sacrificial offerings; that death, instead of being immediately visited upon the transgressor, should be transferred to a victim which should prefigure the great and perfect offering of the son of God. (1BC 1104)

UL 22
The uncertain experience of many professed Christians--sinning and repenting and continuing in the same dwarfed spiritual condition--is the result of worldliness and unholiness of life. The saving grace of Christ is designed for everyday life. Christ came not to save man in his sins, but from his sins. The principles of truth, abiding in the heart, will sanctify the life.--Manuscript 35, Jan. 8, 1893, "Publishing Work." {UL 22.6}

OHC 215
Genuine conversion is needed, not once in years, but daily. This conversion brings man into a new relation with God. Old things, his natural passions and hereditary and cultivated tendencies to wrong, pass away, and he is renewed and sanctified. But this work must be continual; for as long as Satan exists, he will make an effort to carry on his work. He who strives to serve God will encounter a strong undercurrent of wrong. His heart needs to be barricaded by constant watchfulness and prayer, or else the embankment will give way; and like a millstream, the undercurrent of wrong will sweep away the safeguard. No renewed heart can be kept in a condition of sweetness without the daily application of the salt of the Word. Divine grace must be received daily, or no man will stay converted. {OHC 215.2}