Mark,

I appreciate your counsel. That is why I came to this forum to get feedback and wise counsel. I got tired of getting out of context rejection. But I am heading down the same road. Men of experience have refused to give this a fair and impartial hearing even though I have tried repeatedly to get them to do so. Only when it gains momentum will they be compelled to action. And As it was in Christ's Day and in 1888, I fear that they will cling to tradition more than Present Truth.

But come what may, God is taking charge of the closing of His work and He will guide His Church to harbor.

Either Daniel 7:17 is about 4 American Presidents or it is not. Since Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 use the same symbolism, and Rev 13 uses EARTH to depict the USA, for these parallel chapters to be in sync, the symbolism must be in sync.

Blessings

Same symbolism or is it symbolism which has similar objects or symbols? Meaning, if it uses 10 horns, and while "horn" might mean the same concept, does 10 horns always mean the same thing or entity? Does "beast" always mean the same thing?

Rev 12 has a great red dragon with 10 horns.
Rev 13 has a beast with 10 horns.
But, it receives its power from the dragon beast. So it can't be the same beast with 10 horns.



By the way, I'm curious what part, if any, do you see the health message playing in the loud cry or anything with the end time message?

A “private interpretation” is by definition one that (needs to) ignore the exegetical context. And, as with the other interpretations you have advanced thus far, your claim for Dan 7:17, has to ignore that the mentioned “great beasts” there were the historical kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. If it is referred to in the book of Revelation, it is because there is are points that need to be drawn from that historical reality and spiritually applied. (e.g., Rev 13:2a) I do not see any such established hermeneutics in your method of interpretation, hence why I can and do only se what you are advancing as private interpretations. God on the other hand knew that those kingdoms, though quite useful for the advancing of His GC/Gospel/Redemption Plans, would also be used by Satan to adversely affect these advances.

So, I only see your claims of 4 kings for these 4 beasts of Dan 7:17 as being whimsically declarative and not drawn out from any provable, and transparently provable, exegesis. Indeed your whole view here seems to be merely “reversed engineered” from a present belief that the Second Coming will occur in these times. So (1) Obama must be a “last king” (or whatever it is you are claiming here) and thus, (2) these other 4 kings must be the preceding 4 U.S. Presidents!?? Absolutely not exegetical/spiritual involvement here. Hence “private interpretations” Indeed just like the fanciful Futurist-Dispensationalist’s ‘the “king of the North” must be Russia’ since part of their territory is north of Israel!?? God is so much more “Far-Seeing”, “Deep” and Wiser than that in formulating prophecies.

My friend,

If symbols are not symbolic, what are they?
Yes sometimes a symbol can have more than one meaning
or at times opposite meanings that depend on context to
understand.

But we (SDA)teach the consistency of symbols in
Daniel 7 and Revelation 13

lion
bear
leopard
sea
horns

so why should earth be different in two prophecies that are parallel?

The problem with applying the symbolism inconsistently is to skew the meaning of the prophecy.

The health message is a wedge that opens people to the gospel.

From reading your post,it is evident that you have not understood my view and you misrepresent it above.

If you understood what I have written and the radio interviews that you said you listened too, it would not be possible for you to write such things.

Perhaps it is because I got behind on this thread and caught up with many posts that I overwhelmed you. It is Satan's purpose to misrepresent the truth and how better to do it than to have people claiming this or that to write about what they do not understand?

Daniel 2 is about King Nebuchadnezzar and his dynasty
Thou art the head of gold

It is about the kingdoms of Babylon MP Greece and Rome

It is about the degeneration of religion and morality

And in the endtime it is about 4 kings from the earth America.

To accept any of these meanings to the neglect of the others is to limit God's prophetic word to man's finite understanding.

His child, as I had indicated, I had indeed forgotten exactly what you had said in that radio interview, and that was because it did not strike me as Biblical (thus for me, not “memorable”), as reconfirmed to me by your recap here.

-There factually was actually and improvement in religion from Babylon to Rome, indeed going from Babylon’s religious intolerance to the much more civil religion of the Romans who extended full religious freedoms to peoples in their lands.

-The issue of a degeneration of morality is another issue, however I do not see that the decrease of metallic value is indicative of this. As the Bible’s symbols indicates and history demonstrates, each of those kingdoms were overthrown by either inferior kingdoms and/or by a lesser use of force (including Greece’s overthrow of Medo-Persia by Alexander’s comparatively small army. The transition from Greece to Rome was almost noiseless, in terms of momentous wars.).

And you did not “overwhelm me”. Obviously, as you answered to this post of mine, you only answer to statement which oppose your view for which you have a plausible answer to!! So it is manifest that your optional responses are indeed for selective reasons. So before you condemn me for not giving your view much thought, try dealing with those posted statements which are showing Theological/Spiritual/Prophetic holes in it. The proof lies in those objective, substantive factors and not whatever subjective, peripheral claim you may make. Dealing with your view, with it being so Biblically shallow is like trying to disprove a negative, and that may be the reason why many people have not bothered to more serious engage it. To me even the interpretations of Futurist-Dispensationalist have more Biblical plausibility (e.g., 445 start for 70 Weeks, the use of prophetic days, Israel vs. the Church, etc) and thus are worthwhile for me to engage in thoroughly studying them out to refute them

I don’t recall, nor see a link between that Biblical/Historical prophetic development with those 4 American Presidents, and that is indeed where I see that your interpretations are not based upon proper hermeneutics which in this case of refulfillment, require a direct Spiritual link/allusiveness to the past fulfillment. Your interpretations are not ‘Spiritually sequitur’, as they should be to be valid.

And just now relistening to your convoluted and completely wild reason for those 4 Presidents with a “reversed Alpha (“A”) Omega (“W”) sequencing” (which actually does not even exist in those names, i.e., where the “A”), I can now recall why I did not crowd my mind with those statements.

By the way, is there a money-back guarantee for when your unbiblical predictions fail??! There should be and, think about it, that would actually help you sell more books, since your are claiming a ‘definite persons and timed’ message. And given the shallowness of your exegesis and hermeneutics, if God is really leading you and you want to spread this message, then you should post free PDF copies of your book online and simply ask for supporting donations. Surely God would not ‘let your light be put out’ before this claimed Obama-end! I make the same claim that God is leading me with my NJK Project, despite, thus far, no one else wanting to do what is necessary and actually quite feasible to help all those in current vital needs, all out of a claim that the end is near (= Deut. 15:9-11; contra Isa 58) and God has/had clearly setup from long before he called me, the sustaining resources for this current full-time ministry of mine.

Along the lines of EGW’s statements quoted in LDE 80.2-3, as seen in this post (Search for “Raphael” and this one, I too see that Rev 18's Latter Rain Loud Cry of the Third Angel’s message while be tangibly, paramountly and prominently seen in various works of Global physical healings. Indeed that is the ultimate tangible goal of God’s Sabbath Truth and as it affects many other aspects of life which similarly need to be healed (namely socio-economics = Isa 58; cf. Rev 18), it will indeed be a pervasive “Healing of God’ (=”Rapha-el”) Message. That all was also a major aspect of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and also the end goal for why the SDA Church (Laodicea) has been so abundantly blessed with the needed Light, wealth and abilities to acquire the resources needed to be able to do this Ultimate Work.

Is that so?




I ignored your gibberish and went to the questions that merited an answer. And I keep Christ's method in mind. He stated the facts and when they were challenged, He frequently allowed the other person to have the last word.



when the 4-kings from the earth/Presidents were identified I recalled Christ's parable and His teaching agreed with my findings.



"Jesus said in the 11th hour parable, “the last shall be first, and the first last.” Of Himself, Jesus said, “I am the first and the last.” He clarified His words, “I am Alpha and Omega…the first and the last.” Compare the four American Presidents that have been identified in Daniel 7 and Revelation 13: Presidents Reagan (lion), Bush I (bear), Clinton (leopard), and Bush II (in unison with Obama, the iron teeth and brass nails on the indescribable fourth beast) and Pope John-Paul II to the good man’s five trips to the market seeking workers. Compare their names to Jesus, the Alpha and the Omega. The Greek letter alpha is written as an A, and the Greek letter omega is written as an inverted horseshoe or as a W."

"Did you notice that the 4-kings that shall arise from the earth, the four American Presidents identified from studying Daniel & Revelation, all have the omega alpha sequencing in their names? As does Pope John-Paul II!
All of them have an alpha and an omega and the FIRST (alpha) A IS LAST and the LAST (omega) W IS FIRST! But the WA sequencing is not so obvious in the name of Pope John-Paul II unless you know his given name: Karol Józef Wojtyła. Thus it is not a coincidence that these five men: Ronald Wilson Reagan (WA), George Herbert Walker Bush (WA), William Jefferson Clinton (WA), George Walker Bush (WA), and Karol Józef Wojtyła (WA) have the omega alpha sequencing in their names, it is the fulfillment of Bible prophecy revealed through Jesus’ parables. And when the fourth American President is understood to be George Walker Bush and Barack Hussein Obama in unison, Christ’s words hold true: “the last shall be first, and the first last.” The last omega (W) was indeed in the name of George Walker Bush, who as the iron teeth came first and the first alpha (A) was indeed last in the name of Barack Hussein Obama, who as the brass nails came last."



for you I will give 4 times the money back

His child, thanks for the more detailed explanation. I always appreciate the effort of someone who seeks/“bothers”/cares enough to substantively defends a view they have, whatever it may be. However your explanations only further confirm my already posted statements against your view.

I’ll briefly say the following in response:

-I guess my view of the religion and Daniel’s 4 metals applies to religion as it externally related to Israel’s own, so I had a different, yet still validly applicable view than EGW’s internal one here. My view is in this improvement in the strength of religious Freedom from Babylon to Rome and that until (Spiritual) Babylon came back in power in the middle ages (the feet of Iron and clay)

-Just because you did not/cannot/will not understand something does not mean nor make it “gibberish”. Perhaps after Jan 1 2014|2018, they’ll make sense to you, when your fog of self-believed assurance completely clears.

-You application of 3SP 35.1 is a mistaken, and when this is done, one must know what they are doing as it involves proper exegesis. Jesus of course knew what He was doing here (and moreoverly was pointedly referring to the parables in Matt 21:28-41ff).

-Your attempt to claim the parable of Matt 20:1-16 as a fulfillement of Dan 2/7 is completely unexegetical (i.e., beyond original language issues, but spiritual, theological contextual and interpretational issues) and thus quite arbitrary and convoluted.

-If you sign a legally binding contract, including posting asset bonds, in regards to your 4X money back guarantee, I would consider it worthwhile to buy all of your books, as purely a quick turnaround investment (especially if Obama is not reelected next fall, or the currently 84 year old Pope dies of old age (JP-II died at 84), -as I understand your view, a resurrected and clearly recognizable JP II will have to immediately be that next Pope.) Of course, strictly speaking, if I buy even one copy of your books then I would have to read them to be “worth” the purchase, however, as far as I am seeing things from your variously posted/published explanations thus far on them, I see that my expended time would be much more costly, and entirely wasted, than that 4X money back guarantee. Like I said, I rather spend this time studying to refute the much more Biblically plausible Futuristic-Dispensationalist view which, due to this Biblical plausibility I see that Satan has used, and will use to bind people into being fooled to most obliviously accept the Mark of the Beast, i.e., because, as they believe, ‘prophecies passed Rev 4 cannot be fulfilled until after the quite noticeable Secret Rapture.’

You misunderstand still. The Bible does not teach a resurrected John-Paul II replacing Benedict XVI.The two great errors in the endtime are the state of the dead and Sunday. Satan will appear as Pope John-Paul II claiming to be him while his body is still in its crypt.

After reading your post, I am consoled by the Holy Spirit's promise "The wise shall understand." (Daniel 12:10)

Lest we forget it is also written in 1Co 2:14

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Thus as every man works out his own salvation with fear and trembling, he must evaluate his own wisdom whether it be of God or of human devising. The truth shall stand, though all that appears pleasing to the eye that is not of God, will pass away.