1) Was Hagar Abraham's servant (i.e. "bondwoman")?

2) Was Sarah/Sarai Abraham's wife?

Is it possible to be both a servant and a wife?

MM, I think you need to re-read Deut 22:23-30 carefully as it is very plainly written how to deal with the case of rape of a virgin damsel. The damsel is to scream if she’s rape which is what define if she’s rape or not(v.27). In the condition that she screamed (v.27) and is not bethrothed, that man does not die(v.27-29). He only dies if that damsel is bethrothed only(v.24 & 25).

So the conclusion according to this law is the man that rapes dies only because of the reason of adultery for he lied with a bethrothed maiden which is considered as a married woman. Deut 22 does not support your interpretation that all cases of rape = death.

Elle, if what you say is true, what would stop a guy from raping a woman who refused him if he wanted to have her to wife?

If a man find a damsel [that is] a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

Again, the punishment for rape was death not marriage. I believe Elle misinterpreted Duet 22:28-29.

Deuteronomy
22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, [both] the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
22:23 If a damsel [that is] a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, [being] in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:
22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; [there is] in the damsel no sin [worthy] of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so [is] this matter:
22:27 For he found her in the field, [and] the betrothed damsel cried, and [there was] none to save her.
22:28 If a man find a damsel [that is] a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

I take it, Mike, that you have not read the text for yourself. You are looking merely at Elle's interpretation of it, and asking her to defend her interpretation. Why not look at the Bible itself and ask at God's Word?

I'll help you and make this easier.


Does marrying a woman because you have raped her, and not being able to "put her away" for your whole life equal a "death sentence" Mike?

Is Elle's interpretation at fault? Hardly. The Bible is explicit enough here.

I would like you to defend your statement here. If Elle misinterpreted, pray tell, how do you interpret?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

GC, thank you for encouraging me to read the Bible for myself. You might be happy to learn that I did indeed study this passage in the Bible for myself. Which is why I am convinced it refers to consensual sexual relations.

You asked, "Does marrying a woman because you have raped her, and not being able to "put her away" for your whole life equal a "death sentence" Mike?" No, not at all, especially if you raped her because you love her believing the Bible guarantees she'll be yours forever. Pretty sick, don't you think?