I do not doubt that the devil, Satan had fallen before the incidence of the tree of knowledge. We both agree on that one.
Nice to have at least one common ground point to start with.
That old serpent, the devil, who was cast out of heaven with his angels was at the tree deceiving Eve.
Be careful, your scriptures provided above does not say nor suggest that
they were cast out of heaven before the tree of knowledge. You are adding to scripture.
So you are saying that Satan continued to live in heaven after his fall?
He continued to live in heaven after having tempted Eve to sin and started the entire human race on the horrendous track of sin and suffering?
Somehow that does not sound right to me.
2 Cor. 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial?
That doesn't sound like satan would have continued in heaven after his fall.
Yes, I believe the war IN HEAVEN took place prior to Adam and Eve's creation.
i) Concerning the timing of the war mentioned in Rev 12:7-9, it is mention in Daniel 10:12,13,20,21 that there were a war going on at that time. Is it the same war referring in Rev 12:7-9???
I don't see the war in Daniel 10 as being in heaven.
Daniel 10 gives us a behind the scene look at what happens here on earth between the forces of evil and God's angels.
Notice it was over the king of Persia.
Satan's angels were trying to get the king to do something evil, while God's angels were countering them
God's angels ever put a check on the evil that fallen angels try to get people and national leaders to do.
ii) I do not understand the dimension of angels vs. earth affairs regarding spiritual warfare. For sure Paul told us very clearly in Eph 6:12 that the war is not against “flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in heavenly places.” In Daniel 10 it seems to indicate that what happens in heaven is highly connected with the affairs on earth.
I don't understand it all either, but I do know there is severe battle going on over every person pertaining to their salvation. So again I don't see this as a war in heaven but a continual war over the souls of people here on earth.
The phrase "heavenly places" = the word "places" is added, it's not in the original, and the word "heavenly" can mean 1)our atmosphere, 2) the universe 3) heaven.
Satan is also depicted by Paul, as the prince of the power of the air
Ephesians 2:2
These malevolent spirits work evil and mischief and operate in our atmosphere, trying to deceive and destroy everyone of us.
iii) We also know that in the time of Job, Satan could go to heaven and present himself. So to me, that strongly suggest that he were not yet cast out.
But he wasn't living in heaven -- he was roaming to and fro on this earth.
The text doesn't even say the meeting was in heaven. Just that they all come to present themselves before the Lord.
iv) In Jude, it says that they had left their abode, but that doesn’t mean that they were yet cast out.
It's true, Jude doesn't give a time frame.
Just refers to the past event.
However the word "abode" isn't really the best translation.
The word "archē" means 1)beginning 2) origin 3) first position 4)what they began as
They left the position God had created them to fulfill.
{quote=Elle]v) I do know that there are many battles within a war. And a war can take place over a long period of time. So this war mentioned in Rev 12:7-9 may not be over. Is it a battle within the big war??? I do not know since I really haven’t studied this.[/quote]
The war isn't over, I agree.
But yes, I believe Rev. 12 also refers to the initial battle when Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven.
It also refers to the battle at the cross.
When Satan killed the Son of God it sealed his defeat.
When Eve (the first representation of the woman) was given the promise -- one of your offspring (your seed) will bruise the head of the serpent (dragon). It was a promise that Christ, at the cross, would defeat satan.
Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven before creation, but that was merely a physical defeat ending his residence in heaven. His real defeat was sealed at the cross. However the battle isn't over, the final end comes when satan is destroyed.
vii) Also there’s this question of authority in this warfare. Christ was given “authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.” John 5:26,27). From what I’m starting to understand, this authority was given to Adam which were past down the line. With this authority, it seems that man had some ability or position to judge the angels that are part of this spiritual warfare by which has its effect on earth. I do not know how much man was aware of this dimension and thus be able to use this authority effectively in the time of the patriarch and before Jesus came. But once this authority was past down to Jesus, He knew what to do with it and finally He could, as a son of man, use it. Maybe that’s how and when Satan and the fallen angels were cast out of heaven???
The authority of Jesus was given Him by God.
Adam had authority but he lost it when he sinned. Satan claimed that authority over the earth for himself.
Of course the true authority always is in God's hands. And it is only through the power of God that mankind can withstand the fallen angels. And yes, scripture does say
1 Cor. 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels?
But that is future tense, not present tense.
It is only in the name of Jesus that anyone can withstand the forces of evil angels. We have no authority in and of ourselves that can withstand them.
Jesus is our defender and strength
I like how James writes it in envelope fashion:
James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.
God before us, and behind us, His presense all around --
