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Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #14130
07/13/05 02:10 AM
07/13/05 02:10 AM
Ikan  Offline
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Here's a no-nonsense definition of grace from God's faithful servant:

"But while "they that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them," "the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. The latter class had received the grace of God, the regenerating, enlightening power of the Holy Spirit, which renders His word a lamp to the feet and a light to the path. {GC 393.4}

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #14131
07/13/05 02:21 AM
07/13/05 02:21 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Tom, I'm not sure the word "motivates" accurately describes grace. Paul, in Romans and Hebrews, seems to imply grace is the power of God that enables us to partake of the divine nature. Of course, it is the divine nature that empowers us to yield obedience (to be Christlike), so maybe the graciousness of God is what motivates us to want to partake of the divine nature?

Seems to me we need some kind of divine power outside ourselves to even desire the gift of God's grace, to even be interested in partaking of the divine nature. I suppose whatever it is that God does to create within us the initial desire is a form power acting in our hearts, which in turn motivates us to cooperate with the Holy Spirit in crucifying our old man habits of sin.

What do you think?

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #14132
07/12/05 06:00 PM
07/12/05 06:00 PM
Tom  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
MM, I think this:

God's grace is the manifestation of His graciousness. His grace cannot be separated from His character. When we behold the beauty of His character as revealed in Jesus Christ -- that is, when we perceive His graciousness, His kindness, His compassion, forgiveness and love; His treating us not as we deserved, but according to His own lovingkindness -- that mercy melts our hearts and motivates us to live for Him who died for us. As Paul puts it:

quote:
14For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. (2 Cor. 5:14, 15)
I think that's about as well as I can say it. Christ's love "compels" us.

It is our wrong-thinking which needs to be repaired, because as a man thinks in his heart, so he is. In order that we might learn to think correctly, and "be" correctly, God became one of us that we might learn what He is really like; this was the only way He could set us right and keep us right.

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #14133
07/12/05 09:23 PM
07/12/05 09:23 PM
Ikan  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Tom So I think that your last statement about love's compelling power is the regenerating, enlightening power of the Holy Spirit, correct?
Not fear of punishment, the force of pain or the the display of power.

I know of no solid, born-again christian who bases his walk on force. I know many who "buy fire insurance" or "side with the Big Guy", but their lives betray their lack of love, the true Test of knowing Him.

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #14134
07/13/05 02:54 AM
07/13/05 02:54 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
The Bible tells us that God is love, and the SOP tells us that the principles of His government are mercy and truth, so it makes sense that love would be the power by which God regenerates us.

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #14135
07/13/05 04:30 AM
07/13/05 04:30 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Since it is the holy virtues of God that compel and empower us to be Christlike, why are we told to partake of the divine nature? What role does it play in our salvation?

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #14136
07/13/05 10:45 AM
07/13/05 10:45 AM
Ikan  Offline
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Thank you.
I think you may best answer your own questions, there MM, because they seem to be really on your heart.

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #14137
07/13/05 03:11 PM
07/13/05 03:11 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
To answer MM's last question, it seems to me we must first have a definition in mind as to the meaning of "partaking of the divine nature". I understand this to mean that part of the mind which corresponds to spiritual things -- that is, the capacity to understand and appreciate spiritual matters.

If one accepts this definition of partaking of the divine nature, MM's question answers itself. Clearly we cannot respond to God's appeals if we don't have the capacity to understand and appreciate spiritual things.

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #14138
07/14/05 05:09 AM
07/14/05 05:09 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Is it possible to partake of the divine nature before we are born again? before we receive the mind of the new man?

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #14139
07/14/05 06:16 PM
07/14/05 06:16 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Now we've got the problem of using one undefined term to describe another (i.e. "born again" and "divine nature"). My definition of "born again" is "converted". To be converted is to think differently than one used to think. In order to think differently, one must have the capacity to think differently. So using my definitions for things, the processes of being born again and partaking of the divine nature would be contemporaneous.

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