Though others including EW have done it unwittingly, “nature” should not be used as a synonym for “flesh” as that is contrary to the scriptural meaning of it. “Nature” in scripture corresponds to “heart-spirit” aspect.

The “mind” is a product of heart-spirit. Though close in relation, it should not be equated.

Rather than talk about the timing of things, it would be good to ascertain the things themselves.

What is sinful about fallen man’s “heart-spirit”? Why is it wicked? What is deceitful?

What is the solution?

According to Jesus, rebirth is the solution. Paul expressed it this way:

Romans
12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.
12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Galatians
5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Ephesians
4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Philippians
2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

If the Scriptures do not refer to "sinful nature" as you contend John, then you cannot contend what that term should mean according to Scripture. I'm not sure why this is such a crucial point to you, but you have suggested a way through the difficulty we've been having, so I'll follow along with the terminology you are suggesting: "heart-spirit".

This (i.e. "heart-spirit") seems to me to be the same thing as our "mind". There is the "carnal mind" as opposed to the "mind of Christ" or the "mind of the Spirit." Do you agree with this John?

At any rate, I agree completely with your post above which discusses the "heart-spirit" and the problem of sin involving more than simply behavoir. Scripture tells us that "as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he." Fundamentally I believe all of our problems come down to false ideas were have regarding God's character. So to fix the sin problem, we must learn to view God's character correctly. This could only be done by He who was in the bosom of the Father -- God must become familiar and visible to us, so that our sin-damaged mind could be healed.

Thank you MM for the good scriptures.

Let us establish the problem first. I hope to post soon.

Regarding the word nature in the KJV:

Phusis (Strong’s #5449)
1. Nature (KJV)
(a) the nature of things, the force, laws, order of nature
(b) as opposed to what is monstrous, abnormal, perverse
(c) as opposed what has been produced by the art of man: the natural branches, i.e. branches by the operation of nature
(d) birth, physical origin
(e) a mode of feeling and acting which by long habit has become nature
(f) the sum of innate properties and powers by which one person differs from others, distinctive native peculiarities, natural characteristics: the natural strength, ferocity, and intractability of beasts

http://studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=nature§ion=0&translation=str&oq=&sr=1

KJV Dictionary (Based on Webster's 1828 Dictionary)
3. Nature
The essence, essential qualities or attributes of a thing, which constitute it what it is; as the nature of the soul; the nature of blood; the nature of a fluid; the nature of plants, or of a metal; the nature of a circle or an angle. When we speak of the nature of man, we understand the peculiar constitution of his body or mind, or the qualities of the species which distinguish him from other animals. When we speak of the nature of a man, or an individual of the race, we mean his particular qualities or constitution; either the peculiar temperament of his body, or the affections of his mind, his natural appetites, passions, disposition or temper. So of irrational animals.

http://studylight.org/dic/kjd/view.cgi?number=T3760

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (1915)
2. Nature
In the New Testament "nature" (phusis) is frequently found in the latter sense (Romans 1:26, "against nature"; Romans 2:14, "by nature"; Romans 2:27; 11:24, also "contrary to nature"; 1 Corinthians 11:14, "Doth not even nature itself teach you?"; Galatians 2:15; 4:8; Ephesians 2:3; in 2 Peter 1:4, we have "that ye might be partakers of the divine nature," the Revised Version margin "or, a") ; phusis occurs also in James 3:7, "every kind of beasts," the Revised Version margin "Greek: nature," also "mankind" (3:7), the Revised Version margin "Greek: the human nature." "Natural" (Romans 11:21,24) is the translation of kata phusin, "according to nature." Paul in 1 Corinthians speaks of "the natural man" (2:14, the American Revised Version margin "or unspiritual, Greek: physical") and of a "natural body" (1 Corinthians 15:44 twice), the Greek word being psuchikos, "of the soul" (psuche), the animal, natural, principle, as contrasted with what pertains to the higher principle of the spirit (pneuma). In 1 Corinthians 15:46 the contrast is expressed, "Howbeit that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural," the American Revised Version margin "Greek: physical." The "natural man" is the man in whom the spirit is unquickened, the "natural body" is that corresponding to the psychical or soul-nature, the "spiritual body" that corresponding to the Spirit as the dominant principle of the life. In Jude 1:10, we have phusikos, "naturally" "naturally, as brute beasts," the Revised Version (British and American) "naturally, like the creatures without reason"; genesis, "origin," "birth," is translated "natural" (James 1:23, "his natural face," the Revised Version margin "Greek: the face of his birth"); and "nature" (James 3:6, "the course of nature" the Revised Version (British and American) "the wheel of nature" margin "or birth") ("wheel" probably means "circle of nature" (the whole creation; see COURSE)); gnesios, "genuine" ("true to right nature") "legitimate," "sincere," is translated "naturally" (Philippians 2:20, "who will naturally care for your state," the Revised Version (British and American) "truly," margin "Greek: genuinely").

http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T6288

Regarding the word flesh in the KJV:

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (1915)
6. Flesh
Applied to the Carnal Nature: flesh in the sense of carnal nature (sarkikos, "carnal"; the King James Version uses sarkinos in Romans 7:14). Human nature, being inferior to the spiritual, is to be in subjection to it. If man refuses to be under this higher law, and as a free agent permits the lower nature to gain an ascendancy over the spirit, the "flesh" becomes a revolting force (Genesis 6:3,12; John 1:13; Romans 7:14; 1 Corinthians 3:1,3; Colossians 2:18; 1 John 2:16). Thus, the fleshly or carnal mind, i.e. a mind in subjection to carnal nature, is opposed to the Divine spirit, who alone is a sufficient corrective, Christ having secured for us the power of overcoming (Romans 8:3), if we manifest a deep desire and an earnest endeavor to overcome (Galatians 5:17,18).

http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T3471

Sarx (Strong’s #4561)
1. Flesh (KJV)
(A) flesh (the soft substance of the living body, which covers the bones and is permeated with blood) of both man and beasts
(B) the body
[1] the body of a man
[2] used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship
{aa} born of natural generation
[3] the sensuous nature of man, "the animal nature"
{aa} without any suggestion of depravity
{bb} the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin
{cc} the physical nature of man as subject to suffering
(C) a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast
(D) the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God

http://www.studylight.org/desk/?section=2&sr=1&translation=str&query=flesh&st=61&pn=4&l=en

John, it does not appear to be inconsistent with the sources cited above for Sister White to use the expressions sinful nature and sinful flesh interchangeably.

My point was that the way EW and others used the word “nature” was not definitive. It was used to indicate critical differences without discrimination of terminology. While this was normal, it is not helpful. I think that this fact should be self-evident; and is not meant to be a contention.

Thank you for the listings; they prove my point.

As you see from your listings they are two unrelated words in the Greek with distinctly different meaning.

Sarx = flesh, is referring to the tendencies residing in the body
Phusis = nature, is referring to the heart-spirit (higher nature; spiritual nature)

These two words are not interchangeable in scripture. They speak of different things. I do not think MM that you believe, that when scripture uses the word nature (phusis) in divine nature that it is referring to divine flesh (sarx). So it is evident that it is not synonymous or interchangeable. Since they are two unrelated words in the Greek with distinctly different meaning, and we have words in the English language to communicate the difference, let us please do so. This should not be offensive. So please use the terms as defined so that there would be no confusion.

‘Sinful flesh’ is easy, simply put, inherited and cultivated tendencies residing in the body. It is our physical condition of circumstance.

‘Sinful heart-spirit' on the other hand, would be the chosen and cultivated tendencies, position, principles, and values residing in the spirit. This is the problem; the disease; the sin master.

The scripture makes a clear distinction of thought and terminology and I like to keep it so; especially because we wish to speak of the interaction of these two different aspects. For your benefit and Tom’s I have dropped the use of the word “nature”