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Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #14160
07/17/05 09:40 PM
07/17/05 09:40 PM
J
John Boskovic  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
So I hope that we can now get on with understanding the following issues.

What is sinful about fallen man’s “heart-spirit”? Why is it wicked? What is deceitful?

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #14161
07/17/05 11:00 PM
07/17/05 11:00 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
As you see it, what is the difference between Paul's term old man mind and your term sinful heart-spirit? And, what about sinful character? Where does it fit in?

Where do the following terms fit in:

New heart
New mind
New purposes
New motives
New thoughts
Natural inclinations
Softened
Subdued
Renewed conscience
Faculties
Implanted
Will
Soul
Dormant sensibilities
Endowed with traits of character

OHC 159
When Jesus speaks of the new heart, He means the mind, the life, the whole being. To have a change of heart is to withdraw the affections from the world, and fasten them upon Christ. To have a new heart is to have a new mind, new purposes, new motives. What is the sign of a new heart?--A changed life. {OHC 159.5}

OHC 104
The Spirit of God does not create new faculties in the converted man, but works a decided change in the employment of those faculties. When mind and heart and soul are changed, man is not given a new conscience, but his will is submitted to a conscience renewed, a conscience whose dormant sensibilities are aroused by the working of the Holy Spirit. {OHC 104.2}

COL 98, 99
The natural inclinations are softened and subdued. New thoughts, new feelings, new motives, are implanted. A new standard of character is set up--the life of Christ. The mind is changed; the faculties are roused to action in new lines. Man is not endowed with new faculties, but the faculties he has are sanctified. The conscience is awakened. We are endowed with traits of character that enable us to do service for God. {COL 98.3}

ML 267
Mental ability and genius are not character, for these are often possessed by those who have the very opposite of a good character. Reputation is not character. True character is a quality of the soul, revealing itself in the conduct. {ML 267.4}

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #14162
07/18/05 03:22 AM
07/18/05 03:22 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
John, you didn't answer my question regarding whether "heart-spirit" means the same thing as "mind." As far as what is most important, I agree with you, which is the overall idea that we must be healed from our sinful "heart-spirit" and this healing takes place when we perceive and receive the truth about God as revealed in Jesus Christ. We reject our own righteousness, and receive by faith the righteousness of God.

Anyway, back to the minor thing, I have to say that I agree with Mike. I don't think EGW misused the term. She used it the same was as A. T. Jones, E. J. Waggoner, W. W. Prescost, and countless others have used it. Something to keep in mind is that words cannot be tranlated in a one to one way from one language to another. Several versions have translated "sarx harmartias" as "sinful nature" which is the same way EGW, Jones, Presscott et al. have used it. Yet you take issue with these translations saying that they are wrong. But are you an expert in Greek?

The way I've seen everyone who has spoken or written on the subject refer to "sinful nature" is as interchangeable with "sinful flesh". You yourself point out that "sinful nature" is not used in Scripture. Yet you have an idea for its use which, as far as I know, noone else shares. To use a phrase which everybody else uses in one in some different way will lead to confusion.

Returning to the main point, my understanding is that partaking of the divine nature is synonomous with receiving the mind of Christ. Do you agree with this? Perhaps we could speak of the "mind of Christ" as opposed to the "mind of the flesh". Does this work for you? "Heart-spirit" works for me as well.

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