GC - Where I have ever defined justice as evil. This is again a demonstration of you twisting the facts. Executing justice, and Execution are two different things. Justice is doing the right thing. To you, justice is infliction of deserved punishment. What purpose does torture serve one who is going to die? Torture which you say sin can not cause, but God has to inflict.

Have you read pages 35 and 36 in The Great Controversy? How do you understand that page? I'd really like to know. These pages contain quotes like this, "Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work." and like this, "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression". Are not these statements clear??????

Just saw your post truthseeker. I do not rely only on KJV. I do have multiple studying tools to help me do source word (Hebrew and Greek) study.

I have not heard of the Lamsa's translation and will look into it. Tx for sharing this.

Maybe the "infliction of deserved punishment" is not only my idea of justice.



God's idea of justice involves deserved punishment. (If that punishment were undeserved, it would be unfair, and God would be in the wrong.) This is why God decreed the punishment that would come to Adam and Eve should they eat of the forbidden tree. Nor are Adam and Eve alive today, but have died at the word of the Lord. If they have been faithful, they will enter Heaven at last, for Jesus took their punishment upon Himself. But for those who do not accept Christ's atonement for them, they will bear their own guilt and punishment. This is part of God's justice.

Regarding GC 35 & 36, the context is clearly that of the manner in which God treats sinners now or formerly--specifically, the context is that of the Jewish people and their rejection of Christ. They had committed the greatest of all sins. Yet God did not then send down plagues from heaven upon them. Why? Because all of His judgments prior to the close of probation were to be mingled with mercy. After probation's close, this world will see events that will be astonishing and more severe than ever before witnessed.

God is the Master of the Universe. He is in charge. To God be the glory!

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

gree, you ignored one important word in my comment, "inflict". Yes, sinner will die, the question is why. Does sin kill or does God kill the sinner. You're making your point clear, God executes sinners.

GC 35/36. "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression". You say there is a context issue. What is the sentence for trangression of the law, Romans 6:23? Death. 1st or 2nd? 2nd. The first death is not the sentence for transgression of the law. Yes, it is a result of transgression, but it is not the final answer. Continue with the quote, "Jerusalem is a fearful and solemn warning to all who are trifling with the offers of divine grace and resisting the pleadings of divine mercy. Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty. {GC 36.1}" So what is the context? It is not just the Jews rejection of Christ, but the destruction of Jerusalem is a demonstration of the punishment that will fall on the guilty. And how was God involved with the destruction of Jerusalem? Read the quote again!!! God withdrew His protection, His protection is His mercy. Great Controversy pages 35 and 36 speak to us now and also tells us who is the acting subject at the close of probation. It is Satan rule and not God that inflict the last plagues. God's mercy, His restraining work is withdrawn, and all hell breaks loose.

Revelation 7:1-3 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

The four angels have power to hard the earth. How will they harm the earth? The stop holding back the winds. When their protection is withdrawn, then we will see Satan's work, and it is not pretty. It will be horrible. God is not the one causing the strife, Satan is.

APL,

God has given in His word decisive evidence that He will punish the transgressors of His law. Those who flatter themselves that He is too merciful to execute justice upon the sinner, have only to look to the cross of Calvary. The death of the spotless Son of God testifies that "the wages of sin is death," that every violation of God's law must receive its just retribution. Christ the sinless became sin for man. He bore the guilt of transgression, and the hiding of His Father's face, until His heart was broken and His life crushed out. All this sacrifice was made that sinners might be redeemed. In no other way could man be freed from the penalty of sin. And every soul that refuses to become a partaker of the atonement provided at such a cost must bear in his own person the guilt and punishment of transgression…. {DD 16.4}

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

APL,

Have you properly taken into consideration the full context of Mrs. White's statement regarding the Jews? If so, how is it that you are not surprised at not seeing ALL sinners equally destroyed as were the Jews in Jerusalem? Why were they destroyed, but sinners in Rome, Egypt, Corinth, Nineveh, etc. were not? If you refer to the second death, why are not these cities equally judged? Is not any sin, however small, worthy of death? Why is Jerusalem so singularly destroyed?

Attempting to extend the context beyond where it is wont to go opens up a can of worms.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

green - I think the statement of EGW answers your question, Jerusalem is an example. The whole Jewish experience is an example. Did you ignore the these 2 sentences? "Jerusalem is a fearful and solemn warning to all who are trifling with the offers of divine grace and resisting the pleadings of divine mercy. Never was there given a more decisive testimony to God's hatred of sin and to the certain punishment that will fall upon the guilty. {GC 36.1}"

God does not cause sin, right? God does not tempt us to sin, right? He has nothing to do with sin, right?

Then how does God's hatred of sin have any part in the matter, for you say that God does not kill, only sin does. Now, if sin is involved in doing something here, and God does not cause sin or promote it in any way, how would God be involved in the destruction of Jerusalem?

Why is it "punishment?" If God merely withdrew His protection, but had no other involvement beyond this, why should it be called "punishment?" Why not simply "consequences?"

Punishment is active, whereas consequences are passive. Punishment is the result of voluntary action, whereas consequences are involuntary. So why "punishment?"

If the destruction of Jerusalem came as a result of God's withdrawn protection, and God had no other involvement beyond this, then how could it have been termed "punishment?" Does Satan "punish" his followers? Does sin "punish?"

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Have your read Great Controversy pages 35 and 36? Does it say God actively destroyed Jerusalem? Where? EGW statement on page 35 says, "Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God." This is Satan's claim. How is it any different than what you are saying?

Hi APL,
I really didn't read any of the other posts. I just posted what I know to be true about God. The idea that God executed Christ in order to pay for the penalty of sin sounds a little pagan to me.

Pagans would appease their gods and execute, kill or sacrifice people. God was in Christ so there would be no executing. Also, Jesus was the sin bearing sacrifice who willingly gave His life. In dying as our sacrifice He made a way for us to escape the death we were all destined to.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

It does say in Isaiah that it pleased God to bruise Him but there a big difference between bruise and execute. What God did was to allow sin to kill His Son, He died of a broken heart. 2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Norman