You really think it would do anybody any good to raise Hitler just to torture him? Really?

APL and Green...you guys are off-topics. I don't know how far back this started, but I've been waiting for you to get back to the discussion. This is about if the Lord Create Evil or permits it.

Yes, Elle. Somehow, everything that God creates or permits has to do with DNA and the fact that God will never punish. At least, that is the way APL seems to approach every subject, including this one.

If you wish to persuade APL that God could "create evil," you will need first to dissuade him from some of his present ideas.

It is possible that the phrase "create evil" in Isaiah 45:7 in the KJV is not the best translation. It may be that another translation would have been better.

On the other hand, I think God also takes ultimate responsibility for all that has happened under Him. After all, He is the King of the Universe. He created the possibility of evil by allowing His creatures the freedom of choice. It seems, simply by doing this, He effectively set up the inevitability of evil, for it seems almost impossible that a perfect universe would continue infinitely without one creature or another choosing against the law of God, especially given the fact that no one then knew what the results of breaking the law would be.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

If raising people back to life just to "make 'em pay" isn't advocating torture for the pure enjoyment/benefit of the torturer, I don't know what is.

It's like you are saying God created evil for His enjoyment. And that by doing evil.

kland,

Do you believe God will raise the wicked to life again to face judgment? If so, how do you explain the situation? Why not just leave them in their graves eternally?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

We know EVERYONE who has ever lived will be standing before the white throne judgement after the 1000 years (Rev. 20) It's also plain that those whose names are not in the book of life will perish in the lake of fire.

Why do some take Satan's side -- it is he that declares this to be the ultimate injustice. His plan is to take the city and dethrone God and rule in His place. (thank God that won't happen or there would be no hope for anyone)


The 2nd resurrection is to show once and for all the justice of God.

The fact is that there will be people IN HEAVEN who did some terrible things here on earth. And there will be people lost, who to all appearances lived a pretty decent life.

Probably the most notorious Bible character was Manasseh, he even had the prophet Isaiah gruesomely killed. But he repented and tried to make things right, and God "heard" him!

Why should he be saved, while someone who appeared to be pretty decent is lost?

What if Hitler by a miracle of grace changed and enters heaven? You probably wouldn't be anymore shocked, then when a martyred Israelite sees Manasseh in heaven.

But at the great white throne judgment it will all be revealed. The repentant sinners, who were cleansed and changed by God's grace will be in humble praise before the throne, while outside the lost will reveal that even yet, they would tear God from His throne.

Some teach that God will magically save everyone at that time, but that's not what scripture says. It will be seen that even then there is no repentance of sin in the lost, only an anger that their sinful ways lost out.
It will be shown that Christ did everything possible (outside of force) to save them, but they would not.

Everyone will know why some sinners ended up in heaven, and others not. For all were sinners, but some repented and came to Christ for cleansing while others did not.

Remember -- this great conflict isn't just about people here, it is a drama for the whole universe to understand God's justice and love.

Yes, God created intelligent beings with the power of choice knowing full well that His authority would be challenged.
Rather than program them all like robots, He chose to let events show once and for all time, the stark contrast between His ways, and the ways of rebellion. He did this even though it meant tremendous suffering for HIM, because He died the agonizing death that is ours, in order to bring us into full love and friendship with Himself. "For the joy set before Him He endured the cross" to have beings that loved Him and followed his ways because they were totally convinced it was right, good and wonderful.

There was no other way.

Good question. But if one doesn't have an answer, does that mean he needs to say that God raises them to torture them?

"Be ready always to give an answer..." says the Bible. Of this, Mrs. White says:


So, if you don't have an answer, it is your duty to study this out until you are well able to answer it. This is not a small matter, of no importance. Many in the world have questions about God and His character because of the manner in which Satan has misrepresented Him. They have questions about the judgment. This matter is well worth studying diligently, to God's approval.

If we have an answer, we might be wrong. If we don't have an answer, we cannot be right.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Good advice. Why not err with the answer which puts God in good light?

But you don't have an answer! A non-answer cannot be the right answer.

Personally, I think the answer puts God in the most favorable light possible.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.