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Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#153896
07/03/13 04:32 AM
07/03/13 04:32 AM
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SDA
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Good advice. Why not err with the answer which puts God in good light? But you don't have an answer! A non-answer cannot be the right answer. Personally, I think the answer puts God in the most favorable light possible. Blessings, Green Cochoa. God raises the wicked to punish them, which it can have no other purpose than to impose pain and suffering, and to scare everyone else to not mess with him, is putting God in good light? A pagan god maybe...
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil?
[Re: APL]
#153897
07/03/13 06:16 AM
07/03/13 06:16 AM
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A pagan's god has no power to create life, to give life, nor to resurrect the dead. Is it "evil" for God to resurrect the wicked? If so, why? If not, why not?
This whole thread is about whether or not God creates evil. This question seems somewhat related. I don't think anyone here questions that God WILL raise the wicked dead. So the question must be asked, to what purpose?
If "evil" cannot raise anyone from the dead, then God cannot be "allowing" their resurrection. He must be actively involved, not passively permitting. If it is only for evil (pain and suffering) as APL claims, then will God "create evil?"
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#153900
07/03/13 12:34 PM
07/03/13 12:34 PM
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You are right! A pagan god can not create life? Why then to we attach pagan ideas with our God?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#153905
07/03/13 02:14 PM
07/03/13 02:14 PM
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Good advice. Why not err with the answer which puts God in good light? But you don't have an answer! A non-answer cannot be the right answer. Why are you saying I don't have an answer? I gave a suggestion somewhile back. You were asking why did God raise people if it wasn't to torture them. I said if you don't have a good answer, why pick a bad answer. Personally, I think the answer puts God in the most favorable light possible.
If Hitler did the same thing, does it put him in the most favorable light possible? Hitler and/or the papacy tortured people almost to the point of death and then revived them so they could be tortured again. What difference from them as you see God doing? Is it because God can "miraculously" keep them alive to "make 'em pay their full penalty"?
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Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil?
[Re: kland]
#153906
07/03/13 02:17 PM
07/03/13 02:17 PM
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APL, I once came across a quote from Ellen White that I don't remember the exact wording and so cannot find it. But the essence of it was something like that the idea of promoting a angry / torturing God has led more men to be come infidels / atheists than any other thing.
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Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil?
[Re: kland]
#153912
07/03/13 07:20 PM
07/03/13 07:20 PM
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kland, perhaps this quote from GC is that you were thinking of? It is beyond the power of the human mind to estimate the evil which has been wrought by the heresy of eternal torment. The religion of the Bible, full of love and goodness, and abounding in compassion, is darkened by superstition and clothed with terror. When we consider in what false colors Satan has painted the character of God, can we wonder that our merciful Creator is feared, dreaded, and even hated? The appalling views of God which have spread over the world from the teachings of the pulpit have made thousands, yes, millions, of skeptics and infidels. {GC 536.2} Appalling views include more that just eternal torment.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil?
[Re: APL]
#153923
07/04/13 02:10 AM
07/04/13 02:10 AM
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Appalling views include more that just eternal torment. Find support for this, or you risk making an untrue statement. I infer that you refer to the punishment of hell. But Mrs. White never speaks against that view. If she did, she contradicted herself. You don't seem to truly accept some of Mrs. White's views. You have called them "pagan" on this forum. But Mrs. White was far from pagan. She was a spokesperson for God. If you do not accept His messages through His chosen instrumentality, you are not accepting God's truth. The wicked receive their recompense in the earth. Proverbs 11:31. They "shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 4:1. Some are destroyed as in a moment, while others suffer many days. All are punished "according to their deeds." The sins of the righteous having been transferred to Satan, he is made to suffer not only for his own rebellion, but for all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit. His punishment is to be far greater than that of those whom he has deceived. After all have perished who fell by his deceptions, he is still to live and suffer on. In the cleansing flames the wicked are at last destroyed, root and branch--Satan the root, his followers the branches. The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and heaven and earth, beholding, declare the righteousness of Jehovah. {GC 673.1}
Satan's work of ruin is forever ended. For six thousand years he has wrought his will, filling the earth with woe and causing grief throughout the universe. The whole creation has groaned and travailed together in pain. Now God's creatures are forever delivered from his presence and temptations. "The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they [the righteous] break forth into singing." Isaiah 14:7. And a shout of praise and triumph ascends from the whole loyal universe. "The voice of a great multitude," "as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings," is heard, saying: "Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Revelation 19:6. {GC 673.2}
While the earth was wrapped in the fire of destruction, the righteous abode safely in the Holy City. Upon those that had part in the first resurrection, the second death has no power. While God is to the wicked a consuming fire, He is to His people both a sun and a shield. Revelation 20:6; Psalm 84:11. {GC 673.3}
"I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away." Revelation 21:1. The fire that consumes the wicked purifies the earth. Every trace of the curse is swept away. No eternally burning hell will keep before the ransomed the fearful consequences of sin. {GC 674.1} Mrs. White draws a distinction between an "eternally burning hell" and that which will last for mere "days." Do you accept this truth, APL? Do you accept that only after this punishment has been meted out by God to the wicked, the "full penalty of the law" will have been visited and the "demands of justice" met? If these things seem evil to you, then perhaps Elle is right in this thread that God creates "evil." I, on the other hand, do not feel that God creates evil, but simply that He takes responsibility for it. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#153930
07/04/13 04:27 AM
07/04/13 04:27 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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You don't seem to truly accept some of Mrs. White's views. You have called them "pagan" on this forum. YOU do not accept Ellen White's views. Example GC35/36 you continually deny. I do not call HER view pagan, I call YOUR views pagan. You call God the accuser of the brethren. But if God is for us, WHO can be against us? Is it Jesus? No. The woman taken in adultery, who was the accuser? God? No. Is God against the wicked in the end? No. But He will not force their love, and love can not be commanded. The wicked die, but it is not execution by God. Jesus proved this by His death. God did not execute Christ. My experience with universalists such as Elle, is that they accuse God of everything, thus He has to clean up His mess and He will, and all will be saved. Of course, God is not the source of evil. God will stand clear of blame for the existence or continuance of evil.{DA58}
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil?
[Re: APL]
#153934
07/04/13 04:57 AM
07/04/13 04:57 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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You call God the accuser of the brethren. Lest one of us be found to be a liar, please find the post where I did this. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#153936
07/04/13 05:03 AM
07/04/13 05:03 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
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You call God the accuser of the brethren. Lest one of us be found to be a liar, please find the post where I did this. Blessings, Green Cochoa. Hm - lets see, God raises the wicked to punish them. Obviously then He has judged them and convicted them, now He MUST punish them. And this is not accusing them? Have I got your reasoning wrong? If so, please clarify.
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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