You have, by this, applied your belief to me as if it were also mine. However, I do not hold the belief that a newborn infant is not a sinner. I believe we are sinners from our mothers' wombs. We sin before we are born. You would be, therefore, unable to "wisk away" the baby to a sinless, "sterile" environment and let him/her live forever. He/she will already be a sinner, subject to death per God's command to Adam "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." The day we taste of sin is the day we die, per God's command. Babies have already tasted of sin through their parents before they are born. When mother gets irritable, or angry, those same emotions flow through the developing fetus. As David said, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." We are formed in a non-sterile environment...an environment rife with sin.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

But, again, Ellen White is here, just like Paul usually does, speaking broadly. She is NOT intending to speak unilaterally, nor without exception.

For example, not everyone will be raised back to life.

You see, you like to see things in full black and white. But there are other shades involved in this Great Controversy, and God is able to distinguish them just as we are.

Let's look at another quote, for some support of the statement that I made that not all will be raised back to life.



Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

You are side stepping the issue of the first death which you claim is the wages of sin, personal sin.

And what is the wrath of God?

APL,

You keep saying things about what I believe that are untrue. Please stop doing this. It is unChristian, unkind, and impolite. It hurts that you would mischaracterize what I believe.

I do not claim that the first death is the wages of sin. I believe no one will receive their full wages until the second death. At the second death (or life) the punishments (or rewards) are given. The first death can be but a portion of what sin offers us, and is a good reminder of what sin will eventually bring the sinner to for eternity.

Yes, both deaths are caused by sin. But the "wages" for sin are given at the time of the second death.

When I ask a question, APL, it does not mean I believe what I am asking. It simply means I want to know what you or someone else believes about what I ask. Please do not use my questions to determine what I believe. You will jump to incorrect conclusions quite easily this way.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Please explain!

I've explained this already more than once on this forum. I think I explained it in the same post from which you extracted that sentence. Did you not understand the explanation? Which part do you not understand?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Please review message number #153957 and following. In that message you replied to me:I quoted EGW who says, "In consequence of Adam's sin, death passed upon the whole human race. All alike go down into the grave." All meaning the wicked and the righteous. And this:"The death referred to in these scriptures is not that pronounced upon Adam, for all mankind suffer the penalty of his transgression." We die the first death because of Adam's sin. You replied:

Originally Posted By: green

People die for their sin, because "the wages of sin is death." You cannot transgress God's law for me any more than I can sin for you. We are each held accountable for our own sins. You sin, you die. Adam didn't sin to make you die. You sinned to make you die. Adam's sin, however, was contagious, and you were acquainted with sin because he sinned. His sin introduced the whole world to sin. That is what the text in Romans is teaching us.

You further wrote:

Originally Posted By: green

Even the so-called "first-death" is not a requirement, per se. Many will reach Heaven having never tasted death at all, because Christ has borne their penalty.

So the first death is or is not the penalty of sin? Did Christ dies to pay the penalty of the first death or the second? Which death did Jesus die? First or second? The death that is the "wages of sin" is the second, so Jesus died that death, not the first.

Now, I read what you wrote in your last message, and you are saying that we die the first death because our own sin, not Adam's, for the wages of sin is death. We are talking first death. Now you are saying the the first death is not the wages of sin, for which I wholeheartedly agree. How have I mischaracterized what you wrote? Do we die the first death only for our own sins? Yes or No? Or as EGW and Bible says, we die the first death because of Adam's transgression? You have presented a confusing picture.

I find this comment of yours fascinating! Tell me, what about Jesus? Jesus was Galatians 4:4 made of a woman, made under the law. Did His mother's irritability pass on to Him?

By the way, HOW do a mother's emotions get passed on to the child? How does the iniquity of the fathers get pass on to the children, even to the 3rd and 4th generation?

You stated it happened, but you did not explain HOW it happens. What is the physiology at play? PLEASE, Explain!

APL,

Again, both deaths are because of our individual sins. But the full wages are not paid until the second death. That is my understanding until I am shown otherwise.

"The wages of sin is death," applies to both deaths, right? Both are caused by sin. But the full penalty, or "wages," is not applied until the second death. The first death is but a small portion of those wages. I believe, in other words, that this text regarding the wages of sin has at least a dual application. One cannot correctly apply it to just one of the two deaths as having fulfilled its full application.

BOTH deaths we die for only our own sins. BOTH deaths are "wages" for our sin. But the first death is but a shadow of the wage to be applied at the second, in most cases. Sodom and Gomorrah may be our best example of what is to come at the time of the second death.

In a sense, APL, BOTH deaths for any of the sons of man have been precipitated by Adam's transgression. If Adam and Eve had never transgressed, who would be burned in hell? Yet each will die for his own sin. The Bible is clear on this.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.