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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#155382
08/24/13 01:49 AM
08/24/13 01:49 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
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If the Bible says God killed Saul, why do you dare to differ with that fact? I know someone who once told me that the Bible can't be trusted because it tells us that God loves the world, and also tell us that we should not love the world. Believing that he was capable of rejecting God's word did not lead to any good.
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: asygo]
#155402
08/24/13 10:21 PM
08/24/13 10:21 PM
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Sooner or later, we each have a choice to make. Either we accept what God says, or we don't. We are all capable of either, for God has given us free choice. In the cases where we have evidence to go on but we do not have full proof, or "sight," it is completely a faith choice. I put my faith in God and in His Word. This means I make the assumption that His Word is true, even if I do not understand it always. I realize that I am but human, and that God's thoughts are far loftier than my own. As Mrs. White comments: The difficulties of Scripture have been urged by skeptics as an argument against the Bible; but so far from this, they constitute a strong evidence of its divine inspiration. If it contained no account of God but that which we could easily comprehend; if His greatness and majesty could be grasped by finite minds, then the Bible would not bear the unmistakable credentials of divine authority. The very grandeur and mystery of the themes presented should inspire faith in it as the word of God. {SC 107.1} Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: kland]
#155426
08/26/13 12:03 PM
08/26/13 12:03 PM
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kland,
I agree with Arnold. If the Bible says God killed Saul, why do you dare to differ with that fact? But Green, Arnold said: 1 Samuel 31:4
Therefore Saul took a sword and fell on it.
kland, did you know that?
If the Bible says Saul killed himself, why do you dare to differ with that fact? Sooner or later, we each have a choice to make. Either we accept what God says, or we don't. But you deny what the Bible says let alone the Bible?
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: kland]
#155437
08/26/13 01:44 PM
08/26/13 01:44 PM
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SDA
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kland,
I can fall on a sword, and not be killed by it. I have heard people can even swallow a sword, and live. Does the verse say the sword killed him? Is there any verse in the Bible which tells us that Saul was killed by a sword?
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#155440
08/26/13 01:50 PM
08/26/13 01:50 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
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So you're saying that Saul failed to commit suicide, but God finished him off? By what means?
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: kland]
#155442
08/26/13 02:00 PM
08/26/13 02:00 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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So you're saying that Saul failed to commit suicide, but God finished him off? By what means? Not necessarily. I'm saying God abandoned Saul, leaving him to die. Did David kill Uriah the Hittite? The Bible says he did. Do you believe that David did so? By whose sword? By the Philistine sword, right? God killed Saul in the same manner. God was the King in charge of that battle. His men were out there fighting the enemy. God abandoned Saul. The enemy sorely pressed him. He was wounded. He would have died anyhow, but he hastened his own death by taking things into his own hands due to his cowardice toward potential torture by his enemies. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#155444
08/26/13 04:14 PM
08/26/13 04:14 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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So you're saying that Saul failed to commit suicide, but God finished him off? By what means? Not necessarily. I'm saying God abandoned Saul, leaving him to die. Did David kill Uriah the Hittite? The Bible says he did. Do you believe that David did so? By whose sword? By the Philistine sword, right? God killed Saul in the same manner. God was the King in charge of that battle. His men were out there fighting the enemy. God abandoned Saul. The enemy sorely pressed him. He was wounded. He would have died anyhow, but he hastened his own death by taking things into his own hands due to his cowardice toward potential torture by his enemies. Blessings, Green Cochoa. Did you just call God a murder?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: APL]
#155446
08/26/13 05:06 PM
08/26/13 05:06 PM
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SDA
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It wouldn't surprise me. The Bible is uninspired and God is a murderer.
But I think in this case, he said that God withdrew from Saul and no longer protected him. This does surprise me, so I may be wrong, especially considering the rest of the paragraph he may have intended to contradict the first sentence.
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: kland]
#155447
08/26/13 05:07 PM
08/26/13 05:07 PM
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SDA
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At school, where he was sent at an early age, Luther was treated with harshness and even violence. So great was the poverty of his parents that upon going from home to school in another town he was for a time obliged to obtain his food by singing from door to door, and he often suffered from hunger. The gloomy, superstitious ideas of religion then prevailing filled him with fear. He would lie down at night with a sorrowful heart, looking forward with trembling to the dark future and in constant terror at the thought of God as a stern, unrelenting judge, a cruel tyrant, rather than a kind heavenly Father. {GC 121.2}
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Re: Does God Punish? (Part 2)
[Re: kland]
#155450
08/26/13 05:28 PM
08/26/13 05:28 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2020
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
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It wouldn't surprise me. The Bible is uninspired and God is a murderer.
But I think in this case, he said that God withdrew from Saul and no longer protected him. This does surprise me, so I may be wrong, especially considering the rest of the paragraph he may have intended to contradict the first sentence. Green said: "God killed Saul in the same manner", the same manner as David murdered Uriah. Thus, God must be a murderer. That is what green said, no?
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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