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Re: Is a lukewarm Laodicean in a saved state? #15600
09/20/05 02:53 AM
09/20/05 02:53 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
quote:
I suspect a connection to spiritual blindness.
What is spiritual blindness?

Re: Is a lukewarm Laodicean in a saved state? #15601
09/20/05 04:48 AM
09/20/05 04:48 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Tom

There is a tread dedicated to find that answere...

Re: Is a lukewarm Laodicean in a saved state? #15602
09/20/05 12:39 PM
09/20/05 12:39 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Is that right?

Re: Is a lukewarm Laodicean in a saved state? #15603
09/21/05 02:37 AM
09/21/05 02:37 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The Costly Wares of Heaven.--The wares of heaven are offered to our churches. Every individual needs to have a decided interest in the invitation of Christ. Brethren and sisters, are your thoughts after this order? "These sharp, decided words do not mean me; I am in a fairly good condition spiritually, though I may not have all the fervor and zeal that some have. I believe the truth. Those to whom this message belongs may take it. I think some need it." You who think and reason thus, be assured that you are the very ones to whom this message belongs. While the costly wares of heaven are open before you, draw nigh and buy that which you have lost--the gold of love and faith, and the white raiment which is the righteousness of Christ (Letter 30a, 1892). {7BC 964.9}

Virtues Wanting Among Us.--The gold that Jesus would have us buy of Him is gold tried in the fire; it is the gold of faith and love, that has no defiling substance mingled with it. The white raiment is the righteousness of Christ, the wedding garment which Christ alone can give. The eyesalve is the true spiritual discernment that is so wanting among us, for spiritual things must be spiritually discerned (RH April 1, 1890). {7BC 965.1}

(Isa. 64:6; Phil. 3:9.) Ample Provision for All.--The true Witness has said, "Buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear." What is the shame of this nakedness and poverty? It is the shame of clothing ourselves with self-righteousness, and of separating ourselves from God, when He has made ample provision for all to receive His blessing (HS 139). {7BC 965.2}

(Ch. 7:14.) Encouraging Counsel for the Church.--The counsel of the true Witness is full of encouragement and comfort. The churches may yet obtain the gold of truth, faith, and love, and be rich in heavenly treasure. "Buy of me gold . . . that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear." The white raiment is the righteousness of Christ that may be wrought into the character. Purity of heart, purity of motive, will characterize every one who is washing his robe, and making it white in the blood of the Lamb (RH July 24, 1888). {7BC 965.3}

(Isa. 61:10; Zech. 3:4, 5.) Woven in the Loom of Heaven.--There is nothing in us from which we can clothe the soul so that its nakedness shall not appear. We are to receive the robe of righteousness woven in the loom of heaven, even the spotless robe of Christ's righteousness (RH July 19, 1892). {7BC 965.4}

(Matt. 6:22; James 1:23-25.) Correct Views for the Conscience.-- The eye is the sensitive conscience, the inner light, of the mind. Upon its correct view of things the spiritual healthfulness of the whole soul and being depends. The "eyesalve," the Word of God, makes the conscience smart under its application; for it convicts of sin. But the smarting is necessary that the healing may follow, and the eye be single to the glory of God. The sinner, beholding himself in God's great moral looking glass, sees himself as God views him, and exercises repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.... {7BC 965.5}

The Laodiceans . . . were not entirely blind, else the eyesalve would have done nothing to restore their sight, and enable them to discern the true attributes of Christ. Says Christ, By renouncing your own self-sufficiency, giving up all things, however dear to you, you may buy the gold, the raiment, and the eyesalve that you may see (RH Nov. 23, 1897). {7BC 965.6}

Re: Is a lukewarm Laodicean in a saved state? #15604
09/21/05 02:50 AM
09/21/05 02:50 AM
razorren  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 275
Bahamas
quote:
Originally posted by Mountain Man:
No born again believer, who is abiding in Jesus, is lukewarm. It's impossible to abide in Jesus and be lukewarm. Anyone who is lukewarm is not in a saved state. Period. If they refuse to "repent" their case is hopeless.

What does it mean to be lukewarm?

I think many fear to answer this question because it causes deep intraspection and it often speaks of our own personal condition that we may not be aware of or in denial of.

There were points in my own life that I found myself in this condition and it was the convicting power of the Holy Spirit that made me realize the dangereous ground that I was on.


When I re-read the words of Christ in Rev, I draw from it that the Laodcean member is walking that dangereaous middle ground. In the church, paying tithe, etc, but lacking the fruits of the Spirit. Without the friuts manifested in our lives we would have no desire to share Christ with our family and friends, we would have no desire to help those who lack and are in need, no desire to tell the world that Christ is soon to come, etc. And thus we are lukewarm.

Like the fig tree that Jesus cursed...it looked outwardly good, but it bore no fruit. The Laodcean looks outwardly christian, but his life bears no fruit. He does enough for others to say he is indeed saved, the fruit inspector knows that he is worthy to be cast off.

These are my thoughts...

And now a question...

What would happen if all over the conferences, pastors and elders would stand up and say that we are in a Laodcean state and must repent before it is too late? What would happen if they preached a message that we are lukewarm and need to awaken?

What would happen? Should it happen? Why has'nt it happened?

--Ren

Re: Is a lukewarm Laodicean in a saved state? #15605
09/20/05 03:36 PM
09/20/05 03:36 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
It is the message of Christ's rightouesness which awakens one. It is the goodness of God which leads to repentance. If we want to see revival and repentance, the means to accomplish this is to present God's goodness as it is in Christ. When Christ's character is perceived, it's contrast to our own is discerned.

Re: Is a lukewarm Laodicean in a saved state? #15606
09/20/05 08:52 PM
09/20/05 08:52 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Ewall:
Is that right?

Could have been but noone seems up to it...

Re: Is a lukewarm Laodicean in a saved state? #15607
09/20/05 09:02 PM
09/20/05 09:02 PM
Will  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
It looks like the Laodecian condition is one of laziness because they think they haveit all, when Christ says they have nothing, and are in bad shape.
Ultimately we need to be out there sharing the Gospel with others, and if we do not have the Holy Spirit then we cannot do this because we really wont care to do it cause we think "we have it made".
Am I on the right track with this thought so far?
God Bless,
Will

Re: Is a lukewarm Laodicean in a saved state? #15608
09/20/05 09:12 PM
09/20/05 09:12 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
What would happen if all the church elders and pastors who lead mainly lukewarm congregations would lead the way to some serious focused searching of Gods kingdom, His will, His presence? It would do the churches more good I think to truly start puting God first than to merely hear a sermon on how little fruit they show...

/Thomas

Re: Is a lukewarm Laodicean in a saved state? #15609
09/20/05 09:40 PM
09/20/05 09:40 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I agree about the futility of the need-to-show-fruit part, but think the driving point needs to be not putting God first but an emphasis on God's goodness. It's the goodness of God which leads to repentance, so that is what we need to see.

The whole purpose of Christ's ministry was to reveal God's character in order that men might be set right with Him. That should be the purpose of our ministry as well.

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