I understand what you are referring to as "spirit" is what the Spirit of Prophesy refers to as "the higher powers of the mind" (I think that's the right term; at any rate, the part of the mind that governs we could say). Given that the spirit is not something which operates in some area not above the neck, I think I agree completely with what you wrote.

Tom and John,

Paul speaks about crucifying the old man mind when we're born again, and in its place God implants the mind of the new man, which comes complete with all the righteous attributes of God, all of the fruits of the Spirit. The old man mind is dead and buried, therefore, it cannot tempt us while we're walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man. The origin of internally generated temptations, then, is the flesh only.

The mind of the new man is what enables us to partake of the divine nature, which, in turn, empowers us to imitate the sinless example of Jesus, to mature in the fruits of Spirit, to become more amd more like Jesus. The mind of the new man does not, and cannot, tempt us with unholy thoughts and feelings and suggestions.

The difference between the mind of the new man and the "spirit" is that the "Spirit" (upper case) is the Holy Ghost, not another element or facet of mankind's make up. Rebirth does not change our faculties of mind and body. We possess the same faculties (i.e., will, conscience, intelligence, personality, etc), but the Holy Spirit empowers us to use them to reproduce the character of Christ, to mature in the fruits of the Spirit.

COL 98-100
The leaven hidden in the flour works invisibly to bring the whole mass under its leavening process; so the leaven of truth works secretly, silently, steadily, to transform the soul. The natural inclinations are softened and subdued. New thoughts, new feelings, new motives, are implanted. A new standard of character is set up--the life of Christ. The mind is changed; the faculties are roused to action in new lines. Man is not endowed with new faculties, but the faculties he has are sanctified. The conscience is awakened. We are endowed with traits of character that enable us to do service for God. {COL 98.3}

Often the question arises, Why, then, are there so many, claiming to believe God's word, in whom there is not seen a reformation in words, in spirit, and in character? Why are there so many who cannot bear opposition to their purposes and plans, who manifest an unholy temper, and whose words are harsh, overbearing, and passionate? There is seen in their lives the same love of self, the same selfish indulgence, the same temper and hasty speech, that is seen in the life of the worldling. There is the same sensitive pride, the same yielding to natural inclination, the same perversity of character, as if the truth were wholly unknown to them. The reason is that they are not converted. They have not hidden the leaven of truth in the heart. It has not had opportunity to do its work. Their natural and cultivated tendencies to evil have not been submitted to its transforming power. Their lives reveal the absence of the grace of Christ, an unbelief in His power to transform the character. {COL 99.1}

The first experience of conversion is just the beginning. Our hopes, desires and tastes continue to develop (at least they should, as we progress from milk to meat). The fact that there is a transformation at the beginning does not imply there is no more growth. We grow into the full measure of the stature of Christ.

It is a gowth process. Thats why God winks at the times of ignorance. Jesus's own disciples themselves grew. What happens in an instant is our desire to believe by faith in Jesus Christ as our Savior.
After that happens we begin our walk with Him, and as we study His word He continually leads us and guides us, after all thy word is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path, its not a light or lamp for a fixed location, but a path that we walk on.
God Bless,
Will

MM posted, and I quote:

quote:

---

Not "as", but when. When we are born again, the moment we are born again (not before and not gradually afterwards) God implants within us the sinless mind of the new man, which comes complete with all the righteous attributes of God's character, with all the fruits of the Spirit.

---

If the above is true, then those of us who claim to be born again should have all the fruit of the Spirit. How many of the those of us can also claim that?

Tom and Will, I agree. Both of you should know, by now, that I believe we are born again morally perfect (complete), and that sanctification is the gradual process of maturing morally in the fruits of the Spirit. Like Jesus, we begin morally perfect (complete) and we become morally perfect (mature) as we grow in grace and knowledge.

Daryl, yes, you're right. That's exactly what Sister White wrote:

COL 330
God will accept only those who are determined to aim high. He places every human agent under obligation to do his best. Moral perfection is required of all. Never should we lower the standard of righteousness in order to accommodate inherited or cultivated tendencies to wrong-doing. We need to understand that imperfection of character is sin. All righteous attributes of character dwell in God as a perfect, harmonious whole, and every one who receives Christ as a personal Saviour is privileged to possess [not gradually accumulate] these attributes. {COL 330.2}

DA 676
The life of the vine will be manifest in fragrant fruit on the branches. "He that abideth in Me," said Jesus, "and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without Me ye can do nothing." When we live by faith on the Son of God, the fruits of the Spirit will be seen in our lives; not one [not one] will be missing. {DA 676.4}

The confusion here seems to be the result of deprived understanding of the difference between spirit and mind.

The scriptures distinctly teach the difference, and it is vital in salvation.
A synonym that the scripture uses to interchangeably refer to spirit is heart.

At new birth that which is changed is the spirit or heart. It is changed, because it has a new master. Our spirit becomes united with God’s spirit. On the throne of our being, the shekinah glory has come to abide. The flesh has ceased to have influence over (be the source for) the spirit or heart of man. This is accomplished as we in our spirit/heart believe God and cease to trust either our flesh (lower nature) or our mind (what we think is right/wrong, etc). That is conversion.

The mind on the other hand, while it has acquired some information in the process, still has much to learn. Also all that, which is in the mind from before conversion, now needs to be reclassified, re-valuated, or re-educated.

Paul, after his conversion, went for three years to Arabia, for his intensive study period. The continuing learning process is forever. It is also a fact that as our knowledge and growth in the mind transpires that our spirit and heart deepens.

The confusion here seems to be the result of deprived understanding of the difference between spirit and mind.

The scriptures distinctly teach the difference, and it is vital in salvation.

In saying that "it is vital in salvation" do you mean it is vital we understand the difference? If so, where do the Scriptures teach this, and especially where do they teach that understanding the difference is vital to salvation?

A synonym that the scripture uses to interchangeably refer to spirit is heart.

"Heart" is also a synonymn for "mind", isn't it? For example, when it says that man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart, isn't this saying that God knows what a man is thinking, what his motivations are? When it says God will write His law in our heart, doesn't that mean that our minds are transformed to love His law, and desire to do His will? When Christ said His heart was melting like wax, wasn't that referring to the mental agony He was suffering; the impact of sin upon His mind?

At new birth that which is changed is the spirit or heart.

The mind is changed at conversion, isn't it? For example, consider the following quote

quote:

---

How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. The heart, the mind, are created anew in the image of Him who works in us to subdue all things to Himself. Then the law of God is written in the mind and heart, and we can say with Christ, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God." Ps. 40:8. (DA 175,176)

---

That which happens to the heart, happens to the mind.

It is changed, because it has a new master. Our spirit becomes united with God’s spirit. On the throne of our being, the shekinah glory has come to abide. The flesh has ceased to have influence over (be the source for) the spirit or heart of man. This is accomplished as we in our spirit/heart believe God and cease to trust either our flesh (lower nature) or our mind (what we think is right/wrong, etc). That is conversion.

I understand conversion to be a change in perspective, which is brought about as the love of God revealed by the cross is perceived and responded to.