How is Malachi 3:6 talking about the righteous? I originally said it was talking about returning to God. That means they hadn't yet.

Mal 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Mal 3:7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?


No. You said He didn't need to be a wrathful judge to win them over. Meaning, that it could be a way to win them over, meaning it was the way He did in the past, but now at the end, he doesn't win them over by being a wrathful judge, but consumes them by being a wrathful judge. Is that not what you said?

And I think that's the point we are trying to make. The outward signs, the outward action, you are saying that if satan does it, it's bad, but if God does the exact same thing, it's "good".

So are you saying Rome had no free will?

And is the "heresy" we are teaching is that God is Love, God is not changing, God is not the Destroyer? And to repent, we should have a more hostile view of God?

That's because God and satan work together to bring destruction upon people, right?

So how do you deal with this?

Sickness, suffering, and death are work of an antagonistic power. Satan is the destroyer; God is the restorer. {MH 113.1}


Hmmm. Maybe you disagree with "entropy". Maybe I should ask you what "sustain" means to you.

So indeed, you would agree with insurance companies that "it is an act of God"? Anything bad that happens in this world is because God willed it? But he may use others to accomplish his will like little puppets on a string?

Isn't there somewhere in the Bible that God sent armies to destroy God's people, and then he later punished those armies? What about that? They were only being His puppets controlled by Him and then He punishes them. Your God seems a little irrational and tyrannical, don't you think? But you justify such behavior, even if it is indistinguishable from Hitler and the like, by saying it is from God so it must surely be right.

You've said that several times. Are you trying to say the ends justifies the means?

And you disagree with this? Seems like this is what APL has been saying.

Killing is not punishment in terms of educating the guilty. However, it can certainly be educational for others. See Nadab and Abihu.
[/quote] Ok, so do you kill your son for educating your other children what will happen to them if they should dare play with knives?

Are the people carrying out the Inquisition not murderers if they are "only following orders"? If you were on the jury and you sentenced someone to death, would you not be guilty of breaking the 10 commandments?

What is your distinction between murder and killing?

I wanted him to know I also believed this. He had made it sound like I didn't agree with this so I clarified. I have a whole blog about the second death of Jesus in Gethsemane.

So yes we agree on this point but he seems to think this supports his premise that God doesn't execute justice. The fact that Jesus HAD to go through that experience to redeem us supports the fact that God has ordained this sentence against sin. God isn't saying "this will spontaneously happen", He is saying "I will do this".

I am talking about being judged by the established protestant legal system ordained by God in America and you turn it to the Inquisition? No one who was guided by the Spirit of God were part of that bloodbath. So I would hope it would be acknowledged that they would not be the ideal example to go to in light of the deliverance through Christ.

I wouldn't even use the Judgment inside the General Conference to compare.

The United States has for the most part, been the most fair legal system on earth since the days of the Judges in Israel.

So lets leave the image there please. Do you consider the execution of the judgment of a US court Judge to execute a murderer sentenced to death with every avenue of appeal exercised, do you consider him a murderer?