The true Christian obtains an experience which brings holiness. He is without a spot of guilt upon the conscience, or a taint of corruption upon the soul. The spirituality of the law of God, with its limiting principles, is brought into his life. The light of truth irradiates his understanding. A glow of perfect love for the Redeemer clears away the miasma which has interposed between his soul and God. The will of God has become his will, pure, elevated, refined, and sanctified. His countenance reveals the light of heaven. His body is a fit temple for the Holy Spirit. Holiness adorns his character. God can commune with him; for soul and body are in harmony with God. {Mar 230.2}

Arnold, do you the Christians described above produce fruit that is defiled and unacceptable to God?

All heaven is waiting for human channels through which to communicate the grace of God. {PUR, June 19, 1902 par. 1}

Each angel is at his post, waiting for the cooperation of human channels to give efficiency and power to the truth in the restoration of fallen man. This was Christ's work; this is our work. {7MR 387.1}

He has placed means in the hands of men, that His divine gifts may flow through human channels in doing the work appointed us in saving our fellow men. {CCh 272.3}

He longs to reveal His salvation to the children of men; and if His chosen people will remove the obstructions, He will pour forth the waters of salvation in abundant streams through human channels. {CT 409.1}

Human nature becomes united with the divine nature, Christ lives in the human soul, and acts through all the powers of body, soul, and spirit. From the converted soul, light shines forth to those who are perishing. Those who have been in sin, and have experienced the love of Christ, know how to sympathize, how to adapt themselves to those who are in sin and sorrow, and can exercise the love of Christ through the channel of human affection. Thus a current of blessedness and joy flows through the human channel that is consecrated to the service of God. What a stream of thanksgiving and joy flows back to God through human channels. What vast numbers might unite in becoming active members of the army of the Lord in place of living a life of selfishness and self-pleasing, that at last proves itself to be not life but the veriest mockery. But when life is enriched with the life of Christ, when its impulses are quickened by the faith that works by love and purifies the soul, then the loftiest purposes are carried out, the noblest work is done, in the name of Christ. Through his own transforming grace, Christ is multiplied in the lives of those who are restored to his image. They co-operate with Christ in offering the divine gift of the whole human family. {RH, November 12, 1895 par. 7}

Working through His Holy Spirit He sanctifies and cleanses the soul temple. Thus, though his whole powers had become deranged, man may be brought back restored to his original relationship to God, and become an agent of good to every other man. In place of the diseased, soul-and-body-destroying principles of evil, he follows heavenly principles. Sanctified by the agency of the Holy Spirit, his influence upon his fellow man becomes aggressive to expel from the earth the evils produced through the satanic perversion of that which God designed should be only good. All these perverted powers the Lord Jesus will turn to His service, and man becomes the human channel to work the will of God to redeem and bring back the people that have broken away from their allegiance to God, and to unite them to their proper Center. {18MR 208.3}

All who consent to be freed from their natural selfishness, and to [be] charged with the Holy Spirit of God, are taking part with God; as the human channel they are pouring forth the currents of a divine influence. Their work has God's blessing within it. They are building upon the foundation, gold, silver, precious stones. {1888 1511.1}

Arnold, do you believe the joy, thankfulness, and blessedness that flows back to God through the human channels described above (restored to his original relationship to God) is defiled and unacceptable to God?

James, where in the Bible does it say the fruit of abiding in Jesus is defiled and unacceptable to God?

And as Christ intercedes for us, the Spirit works upon our hearts, drawing forth prayer and penitence, praise and thanksgiving. The gratitude which flows from human lips is the result of the Spirit striking the chords of the soul, awakening holy music. {YI, April 16, 1903 par. 11}

The prayer and praise and confession of God's people ascend as sacrifices to the heavenly sanctuary. But they ascend not in spotless purity. Passing through the corrupt channels of humanity, they are so defiled that unless purified by the righteousness of the great High Priest, they are not acceptable by God. Christ gathers into the censer the prayers, the praise, and the sacrifices of his people, and with these he puts the merits of his spotless righteousness. Then, perfumed with the incense of Christ's propitiation, our prayers, wholly and entirely acceptable, rise before God, and gracious answers are returned. {YI, April 16, 1903 par. 12}

True believers are like Jesus - pure, holy, harmless, undefiled, wholly acceptable to God, without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing, and separate from sinners. Ellen White states this truth over and over again. Listen:


There are but few who are pure and undefiled. {Mar 153.1}

What? That is completely contrary to anything I believe or have ever said.

Why don't you answer the question of where does it say that Jesus was in his sinful flesh?

MM, you have said and quoted a lot of things. But I am looking for one thing, and I seem to have missed it. You have pointed out a lot of things that are NOT defiled, but I am only asking you what IS defiled in 1SM 344. What was she describing as defiled and unacceptable to God?

(We are going to get down to it here. Please Father bless this message. In the name of Jesus your Son amen.)



The scriptures never say that Jesus came in sinful flesh. It says He came IN THE LIKENESS of sinful flesh. The two are worlds apart. He condemned sin in His flesh.



This is the great mystery and it is vitally important that we do not go off the path in contemplating this issue!!!

Try to comprehend this carefully; Before Jesus was baptized the Father communicated through Christ, the Father telling Him what to say for all of creation through Jesus who spoke through prophets. AFTER the baptism of Christ when the Holy Spirit lighted on Him like a dove, the Father communicated with humanity who were IN Christ. As a boy Jesus spoke the words of the Father in the temple... But when He was baptized the words of the Father could be directly heard by those in Christ.

Jesus said; "The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master."

Jesus is our master and He was claiming to be perfect, He was not in the sinful flesh which is the outcome of having sinned.

He also said in Matthew 5:48 "You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." And He said "I and my Father are one". Are you saying the Father has sinful flesh also?

Can we be perfect in our own efforts? By speaking these words into existence He made it possible for us to be perfected. There is an effort to be made in this by us, as all of the quotes you supplied attest to. But can a perfect thing be made by an imperfect thing?

Paul said "Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 3:3

In other words you cannot perfect yourself. God perfects us. We can have perfect faith but this too comes to humanity in His Son from the Father .



This is where you are going extremely off the path Mt Man. Jesus never had the clamoring of sin or the lusts that war in the members. All of these quotes were from men who had sinned. They all had to unlearn what was in them from birth. The old man warring in their flesh. None of those quotes are from the lips of Jesus.

These things only apply to all of fallen humanity, those who know sin. We have that war going on because of our old man, our past. Jesus didn't have that war in His flesh because He had never sinned and His father never sinned. This is the point that God has had me contend with you over and over. He denied Himself by becoming a man, but He was still God.

Pay close attention here please...



Born the second Adam, Jesus took on the nature of unfallen Adam by being the son of Mary, He had the fullness of the nature of the Godhead blended with the unfallen nature of man, and in Gethsemane He took our individual sinful natures upon Himself, but the nature of fallen man was carried by the nature of God. He was a man who had the fullness of the Godhead bodily in His life, but in Gethsemane with the sins of fallen man upon His head He remained undefiled.

But you literally went as far as saying that Jesus had SINFUL FLESH Mt Man. That is a complete lie. Nowhere can that be found in scripture or in the Spirit of Prophecy.

There was never an old man sinful flesh for Jesus to overcome. That was His only advantage in this life. He didn't use His divinity, He only used His inherited character to overcome. The inherited character of our fathers is what makes us fallen or unfallen at birth. If He would have had sinful flesh He could not bear our sins. That is why the flesh of the lambs that were chosen for sacrifice had to be without blemish as He was.

Every one of the Spirit of Prophecy quotes you have spoken in support of your words are correct in themselves Mt Man, and no one here is denying those quotes. The objection is in your interpretation of those words. You are misapplying quotes that are spoken of for fallen men as if they apply to Jesus. They do not.

Jesus denied self and He overcame sin and temptation, but He did not have to call upon the name of the Himself to be saved...BIG difference.

It is important to understand neither the Bible nor Ellen White says the fruit of abiding in Jesus is sinful. God does not require repentance. Nevertheless, the righteous fruit of abiding in Jesus must be sweetened with the perfume of Jesus' blood and righteousness to be spotless and acceptable to our heavenly Father. Not because it is sinful. There is nothing sinful about the fruit of abiding in Jesus. Humanity, combined with divinity, does not commit sin. While abiding in Jesus, while partaking of the divine nature we do not sin, we cannot sin.

So, in what sense is the fruit of abiding in Jesus defiled? Again, it is not defiled by sin. I believe it has to do with contrasts and comparisons. For example, the fruit of Jesus abiding in the Father is like sunlight, whereas, the fruit of born-again believers abiding in Jesus is like candlelight. The difference between the two is measured in terms of depth and degree of righteousness - not in terms of sin. The difference between sunlight and candlelight is light - not darkness. When the light of abiding in Jesus ascends to heaven it is not bright enough for the Father, therefore, Jesus must increase it with His light.


The love the disciples felt toward Jesus was not sinful. It was the fruit of His own love abiding in them. It was the "outflowing from the fountain of His own redeeming love." The difference between the love of Jesus and the love of the disciples is measured in terms of depth and purity - not in terms of sin. The difference between His love and their love is love - not sin.

Earthliness is not sinfulness. The 144,000 retain their earthliness after probation closes and it is not counted as sin. "Not even by a thought could our Saviour be brought to yield to the power of temptation. . . This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble." {GC 623.1}


Consuming their earthliness in the time of trouble enables them to love more purely, more deeply. It enables their light to shine more intensely, more brightly. But again the difference between the purity and depth and intensity is not measured in terms of sin. It is measured in terms of love and light. The purer, the deeper, the brighter it is, the more spotless and pleasing and acceptable it is to our heavenly Father. This will be true throughout eternity. A bazillion years from now our love and light will be more spotless and more pleasing and more acceptable to our heavenly Father.

The love and light of Adam, before his fall, was pure and pleasing to our heavenly Father. Nevertheless, as Adam grew and matured in the fruits of the Spirit, his love and light became more and more pleasing to Him. The same thing holds true of our own children. The grace of God restores repentant believers to the sinlessness in which Adam lived prior to falling. "Jesus became a man that He might mediate between man and God, . . . that He might restore to man the original mind which he lost in Eden through Satan's alluring temptation." {TMK 291.4}

Thank you, James. That is good to know. Not everyone agrees with you and me.

James, what is sinful flesh? Here is how Ellen White defines it:


She says "the flesh of itself cannot act contrary to the will of God." Sinful flesh tempts from within. But it cannot commit a sin. It is not a sin to be tempted. No guilt or condemnation or contamination is incurred when sinful flesh tempts from within. Jesus was tempted in all points like born-again believers are tempted. This includes being tempted from within by sinful flesh.