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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law
[Re: dedication]
#165754
06/07/14 03:03 PM
06/07/14 03:03 PM
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Christ fills that cup 100% with HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. I agree. But do we have a part to play? I believe our part is to open the cup so we can receive His righteousness. The righteousness is all His, but we must be willing to be made righteous.
Last edited by asygo; 06/08/14 01:03 PM. Reason: Typos
By God's grace,
Arnold
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law
[Re: Mountain Man]
#165766
06/08/14 01:59 AM
06/08/14 01:59 AM
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Our obedience may never be perfect, and can never save us--for all have sinned and come under the penalty of death as a result--but when we do all in our power, God will then work in our behalf to save us from sin and destruction. I was praising God for your post until you finished with the words above. Too bad. Nowhere in the Bible or the SOP does it say the fruit of abiding in Jesus is sinful or imperfect. Jesus is not party to sin. Sin cannot abide in the heart wherein Christ reigns supreme. Sin and Jesus cannot cohabitate. "If his Spirit abides in the heart, sin cannot dwell there." {RH, March 16, 1886 par. 2} The fruit of abiding in Jesus is "perfect obedience" - not sin-stained imperfect obedience. Perhaps you're misunderstanding my meaning. I may not have been clear. To clarify this, let me ask a simple question. Have you been perfect from birth? If not, even if you are perfect now, you are still under the penalty of death. Because even one sin causes a debt so great it cannot be paid by any other than the perfect life of our Substitute. Our works will never be perfect, because we have already sinned. We can, however, become sanctified to a point where we perfectly reproduce the character of Christ. This perfection, though wonderful and marvelous and achieved by God's grace and Spirit working in our hearts, to will and to do of His good pleasure, cannot save us. We are not saved by any obedience other than the life of Christ. We, however, cannot be saved without obedience on our part. Without obeying, we are lost. Our works do not save, but a lack of them will cause us to perish. I hope this is more clear. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law
[Re: asygo]
#165767
06/08/14 02:03 AM
06/08/14 02:03 AM
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I have an idea. How about everyone shut down their SOP software and let's just go to the Bible? I saw somehing in Galatians that I had never really noticed before, and I would like to get a better handle on the Scriptures before going into the SOP. I want to use the SOP as a guide to my studies, not as its foundation. The Bible IS the spirit of prophecy. In fact, unless you expand the meaning of the phrase to include Mrs. White, the term "spirit of prophecy," most narrowly applied, is applied to the Book of Revelation. Galatians IS the "spirit of prophecy." Now, if you like Paul more than Mrs. White, just say so. I take them both to be inspired by God. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law
[Re: Mountain Man]
#165768
06/08/14 02:06 AM
06/08/14 02:06 AM
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We are far to prone to take sentences from EGW's writings and use them as "proof texts" to bolster our own ideas, and thereby totally miss the bigger picture. There is very little real Bible study here. I hear what you are saying. However, including inspired insights and testimonies here hardly counts against "real Bible study". If Ellen White were alive and posting here I doubt we would feel like "very little real Bible study" is happening. Many of the SOP quotes posted here include Bible texts. Amen, Mike. Well said. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law
[Re: APL]
#165769
06/08/14 02:16 AM
06/08/14 02:16 AM
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Arnold, be careful here. If Jesus has power to save to the uttermost, and if His grace is sufficient for all, your theology, given the sentiments expressed in your comment above, would lead you necessarily to the point of saying everyone will have to be saved. It's either that, or you make God show partiality. Jesus does not have the power to save to the uttermost? YES HE DOES! Hebrews 7:25 Why he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come to God by him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them. By His sacrifice, Christ has given every one of us the freedom to resist and reject what He has given us. And sadly, many do. The lost want their own final end; at the judgment at the end of the thousand years of Revelation 20, they will ask for destruction. Those who are saved at last are simply those who gladly received the gift. That simple. If God has no "partiality," then what is the difference between "saved" and "lost?" God is not partial. If He were, then there would be grounds for separation of Jew and Greek, slave and free, male and female, saved and lost. I say, the difference is us. We make the difference, not God. How do we make the difference? There is a work of faith which we must do. There is an "obedience" which God does not do for us and which we must do for ourselves, or lose Heaven. Do you define the "work" we do actually "choosing"? All of our righteousness is like filthy menstrual rags. We cannot obey. Only by the righteousness of Christ can be obey. You are weak in moral power, in slavery to doubt, and controlled by the habits of your life of sin. Your promises and resolutions are like ropes of sand. You cannot control your thoughts, your impulses, your affections. The knowledge of your broken promises and forfeited pledges weakens your confidence in your own sincerity, and causes you to feel that God cannot accept you. What you need to understand is the true force of the will. This is the governing power in the nature of man, the power of decision, or of choice. Everything depends on the right action of the will. You can choose to serve Him. {SC 471.} The children of Israel failed at Sinai. They said, Exodus 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD has spoken we will do. They promises were ropes of sand. This is old covenant. This is Hagar, bondage ( Galatians 4:24-25). This is what the brethern chose after 1888 instead of accepting the truth. The nature of Christ was also clearly proclaimed by Jones and Waggoner to counteract Romanism (Babylon) and its immaculate conception of Mary and thus the unfallen nature of Christ. We need to come out of Babylon! APL, You misunderstood my post. I am using the FACTS that Jesus does have the power to save to the uttermost and that God is not partial to support my question to Arnold. I presume he understood it, but he has not responded. In other words, I'm not questioning those facts, I'm using them to support the logic of my question. Arnold was saying that God gives us the obedience of Christ. If we can only obey when the obedience is given us, why should God, who has the power to do so, as I see you agreed as well, not give His obedience to everyone? Wouldn't that be "partial?" If God picks on a few people to give His saving obedience to, why is that not partial? That is the question. If you wish to defend Arnold on this, perhaps you can help him answer that question. I understand that God gives His salvific obedience to those who show by their own obedience that they love and accept Him as their Lord and Savior. Without obedience on our part, the obedience of Christ is not imputed to us. Ellen White tells us this. This is not partiality, this is justice and love. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law
[Re: asygo]
#165773
06/08/14 02:26 AM
06/08/14 02:26 AM
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Christ fills that cup 100% with HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. I agree. But do we have a part to play? I believe our part is to open the cup sonwe can receiveHis righteousness. The righteousness is all His, but we must be willing to be made righteous. Fully agree. We must walk WITH Christ on His path of righteousness and be fully open to His guidance. Jesus says in Rev. 3:20 Behold I stand at the door and knock, if anyone hears my voice and opens the door I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. We must be lead of the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. The "fight of faith" is to stay close to Christ, and not let satan and the things of this world distract us. We are to reflect Christ's character (not become Christ's character) A mirror reflects an image close to it, If we walk closely with Christ through much prayer, daily surrender, genuine seeking word from Him in His scripture and meditating upon it; we will start to reflect HIS image, (not our image, but HIS image) When we wander away and walk apart from Him, we show our own image instead of reflecting His. Our goal is not to reach a point where we can stand up and pray. "God I am thankful that I am not like other people, I don't smoke, I go to church on Sabbath, I haven't lost my temper in a week.... Rather, we must be totally aware of our helplessness and complete dependence upon Christ, and humbly walk with Him in obedience knowing that without Him we can do nothing.
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#165774
06/08/14 02:43 AM
06/08/14 02:43 AM
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Arnold was saying that God gives us the obedience of Christ. If we can only obey when the obedience is given us, why should God, who has the power to do so,not give His obedience to everyone? Wouldn't that be "partial?" If God picks on a few people to give His saving obedience to, why is that not partial?
"Behold I stand at the door and knock, if any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come and sup with him, and he with me." To receive we must open the door of faith, and allow Christ into our lives. I understand that God gives His salvific obedience to those who show by their own obedience that they love and accept Him as their Lord and Savior. Without obedience on our part, the obedience of Christ is not imputed to us. That's like saying a parent helps a baby to walk only after they have shown their own walking ability. No, the first thing one needs to do is respond to the call of the Holy Spirit and come to Christ. The first step and focus must be in inviting Christ into our lives. Accept His merits -- His justification "just as if you never sinned" and count yourself dead to sin and alive in Christ. (See Romans 6) And yes, He will give you His gift of obedience as you continue to stay close to Him. Satan loves it when we think we are not good enough to accept Christ's gifts of salvation, because he knows we will either give up in frustration or develop dead self-righteousness that avails nothing, while trying to "prepare ourselves" in the hopes that we will become good enough for Christ to give us those gifts.
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2014 Christ and His Law
[Re: dedication]
#165778
06/08/14 03:59 AM
06/08/14 03:59 AM
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Faith is believing in God, believing in His promises. James says the devils also believe and tremble. (See James 2:19.) Inviting Him into one's life, and trusting Him enough to surrender all to Him.
Faith is manifested by works, that is true faith will reveal itself in a changed life, eager to do God's will, which one may call "works", but that does not elevate works into the means to obtain salvation or the gifts of God. No? What does the Bible say? Are we not "saved through faith?" If we have no faith (manifested in works, as you put it), we have no salvation. If we have no works, we have no faith. Faith IS action. A mere belief will save no one. James says works show that he has faith. No contradiction there. If his "faith" does show itself in a changed life (eager to do works for God) then it isn't faith at all -- but dead. I assume you meant "doesn't." I'll post more on this in the next post. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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