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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: asygo] #167473
08/12/14 09:37 PM
08/12/14 09:37 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: asygo
Was Peter converted or unconverted with Paul confronted him about his hypocrisy? Did you know that EGW got on somebody's case for telling others not to eat unclean meat?

Peter was converted. He knew he was guilty of wrongdoing even before Paul confronted him. Converted believers are free to sin because they are free from sin. They do not, and cannot, sin while they are walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, while they are abiding in Jesus, while they are partaking of the divine nature.

No, I didn't know about Ellen White jumping down someone's throat for telling people not to eat unclean meat. Sounds right, though. No doubt they were presenting the health message out of order - got the cart before the horse.

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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: James Peterson] #167475
08/12/14 09:46 PM
08/12/14 09:46 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: James Peterson
My question to you is rather personal, "Do you ALWAYS do those things that please God, or is your heart willing sometimes but the flesh weak?" Have you attained the mark of the high calling that is in Christ Jesus already? If not, then have compassion on the guilty, forgive and encourage them instead, knowing well the weakness that besets you as is common to all men.

Being perfect, living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded, does not rob people of their ability or freedom to sin. They are, for the first time, free to sin (because they are free from sin). "Now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness." Before conversion, people are slaves, servants of sin, self, and Satan. They cannot not sin. "When ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness."

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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: Mountain Man] #167476
08/12/14 10:00 PM
08/12/14 10:00 PM
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James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Being perfect, living in harmony with everything Jesus commanded, does not rob people of their ability or freedom to sin. They are, for the first time, free to sin (because they are free from sin). "Now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness." Before conversion, people are slaves, servants of sin, self, and Satan. They cannot not sin. "When ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness."

When does conversion take place?

///

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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: Daryl] #167477
08/12/14 11:58 PM
08/12/14 11:58 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Jesus said - "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

The fruit of rebirth and conversion is striking. The contrast before and after is night and day. "By their fruits ye shall know them." "That which is born of the Spirit is spirit." "Every one that doeth righteousness is born of him." "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God." "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: Mountain Man] #167478
08/13/14 01:20 AM
08/13/14 01:20 AM
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James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Jesus said - "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

The fruit of rebirth and conversion is striking. The contrast before and after is night and day. "By their fruits ye shall know them." "That which is born of the Spirit is spirit." "Every one that doeth righteousness is born of him." "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God." "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

Paul says, "when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them." (Rom. 2:14-15)

When do such "righteous" Gentiles (who never hear of Jesus Christ) experience conversion?

///

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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: Daryl] #167479
08/13/14 03:27 AM
08/13/14 03:27 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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They may never experience rebirth or conversion in God's appointed way. Nevertheless, they will be counted worthy of eternal life in judgment.

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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: Mountain Man] #167482
08/13/14 10:09 AM
08/13/14 10:09 AM
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James Peterson  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
They may never experience rebirth or conversion in God's appointed way. Nevertheless, they will be counted worthy of eternal life in judgment.

Then, conversion is not a prerequisite for salvation. The children of light, as I said to you earlier, were always children of light and come to the light when it shines in their darkness. There really is no instantaneous switch from night into day.

What you are finding confusing is when Paul and Peter speak of the difference in behaviour between Christians and their Gentile community in order to encourage the brethren to remain true to Jesus and not "return" to the vanity of life evident around them. But if you were to be given the opportunity of examining the Christian life, you would be amazed to see that it did not start from baptism, but was always, even from birth, demonstrative of a willingness to be good. Even Jesus recognized this when he excused his disciples saying, "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."

In other words, the children of light were ALWAYS turning towards the Son of Righteousness, even from their very beginning. Though many wander off, stumble and fall, they still arise. Though many act in unsavory ways, yet look closely and you will see the beauty of character beneath the filth and grim on the surface.

///

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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: Daryl] #167491
08/13/14 01:48 PM
08/13/14 01:48 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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At what point are the following inspired descriptions a reality?

1) "Every one that doeth righteousness is born of him."
2) "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
3) "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God."
4) "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: Mountain Man] #167495
08/14/14 12:01 AM
08/14/14 12:01 AM
Rosangela  Offline
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Quote:
Peter was converted. He knew he was guilty of wrongdoing even before Paul confronted him. Converted believers are free to sin because they are free from sin. They do not, and cannot, sin while they are walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, while they are abiding in Jesus, while they are partaking of the divine nature.

This was a relapse, but in Acts 10 it wasn't a relapse - that's the point. Peter was still cherishing the prejudice against the gentiles that he had cherished before conversion.

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Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: Daryl] #167506
08/14/14 03:07 PM
08/14/14 03:07 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Jesus commanded the disciples not to preach the gospel unto the Gentiles. "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not." Peter testified, "Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean."

This vision conveyed to Peter both reproof and instruction. It revealed to him the purpose of God--that by the death of Christ the Gentiles should be made fellow heirs with the Jews to the blessings of salvation. As yet none of the disciples had preached the gospel to the Gentiles. In their minds the middle wall of partition, broken down by the death of Christ, still existed, and their labors had been confined to the Jews, for they had looked upon the Gentiles as excluded from the blessings of the gospel. Now the Lord was seeking to teach Peter the world-wide extent of the divine plan. {AA 135.3}

The time had come for an entirely new phase of work to be entered upon by the church of Christ. The door that many of the Jewish converts had closed against the Gentiles was now to be thrown open. And the Gentiles who accepted the gospel were to be regarded as on an equality with the Jewish disciples, without the necessity of observing the rite of circumcision. {AA 136.2}

Jesus waited until the time was right to instruct the Jews how to share the gospel with non-Jews. Peter's "prejudice" was based on obedience. He believed it was "unlawful" to share the gospel with non-Jews. To do otherwise without a "Thus saith the Lord" would have been presumptuous. Nevertheless, the vision included a "reproof". Peter knew in his heart it was wrong to disregard non-Jews. He was not completely ignorant.

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