HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
Andrew, Trainor, ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield
1325 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,232
Posts196,213
Members1,325
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
asygo 29
Rick H 26
kland 16
November
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Member Spotlight
Rick H
Rick H
Florida, USA
Posts: 3,244
Joined: January 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
9 registered members (TheophilusOne, dedication, daylily, Daryl, Karen Y, 4 invisible), 2,639 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 60 of 73 1 2 58 59 60 61 62 72 73
Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: Mountain Man] #168497
09/28/14 03:54 PM
09/28/14 03:54 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Which temptations require the muck of sinning?

Temptation from cultivated sins.

Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Can sinning come from without?

If that's what you mean, then Jesus knows nothing about it, whether from within or without. I think you're just wandering around aimlessly now.

Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
It is not a sin to eat cheese.

New light. You know nothing about it because it's not in the 28.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: 3rd Quarter 2014 - The Teachings of Jesus [Re: Mountain Man] #168503
09/28/14 11:50 PM
09/28/14 11:50 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
1. It doesn't require sinning to be tempted.
2. Sinning is a choice - not a condition.
3. Not new light. It has never been a sin to eat cheese.

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.. [Re: Mountain Man] #168505
09/29/14 01:09 AM
09/29/14 01:09 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
1. It does for cultivated sins, which Jesus did not have.

2. I think you confused yourself when you switched the subject from temptation to sin, and you're having difficulty recovering. It's a common problem when one attempts a bait and switch. It's ok. You're not the first victim. Just try to keep track of the topic and things tend to stay clearer. Temptation - different kinds from different sources, both from the internal evil of the heart and the external evil of Satan's forces. Sin - three main types: lust of the flesh, lust o the eyes, pride of life.

3. The prophet said we should not do it. If you think it's ok to do it, do so at your own peril. But either it came from a false prophet, or it is one of those things Jesus wants us to do. You decide for yourself if you want to be one of those who does everything Jesus wants them to do. But converted people always do everything Jesus wants them to do all the time, right?

Last edited by asygo; 09/29/14 01:10 AM.

By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.. [Re: Mountain Man] #168515
09/29/14 11:40 AM
09/29/14 11:40 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Perhaps we need a break. The discussion is deteriorating into personal attacks and sarcasm - neither of which fit you well.

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.. [Re: Mountain Man] #168522
09/29/14 03:13 PM
09/29/14 03:13 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,636
California, USA
I intend no sarcasm or personal attacks. I'm sorry if that's how it came across. I'm just pointing out, as clearly as I can, the pitfalls I see. That you happen to fall into some of them compels me to warn you. If I didn't care about you, I would just leave you alone.

If you're feeling some heat because the comments are getting a bit closer to home than you're comfortable with, perhaps you should consider moving to a new home.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.. [Re: Mountain Man] #168523
09/30/14 12:42 AM
09/30/14 12:42 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Thank you for caring and warning me. However, please chose your words more carefully. Jesus was tempted from within and from without just like born again believers. It is not necessary to cultivate sinful traits or to indulge sinful tendencies to be tempted from within.

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer.. [Re: Mountain Man] #168528
09/30/14 07:40 AM
09/30/14 07:40 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Ellen White
... Christ was tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin. He said, "The prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me" (John 14:30). What does this mean? It means that the prince of evil could find no vantage ground in Christ for his temptation. And so it may be with us.... {TMK 279.3}


Mrs. White points out here that there was "no vantage ground in Christ" for Satan's temptations. This means plenty as relates to this discussion. Remember, there was no sin in Him. If there were also no "vantage ground" for temptation in Him, then could Jesus' flesh have tempted Him?

I think Jesus' temptations were all external. Satan, from outside, could still have tempted Jesus to use His own flesh in a sinful way--such as when Satan tempted Him to satisfy His legitimate hunger after His 40-day fast in an incorrect way, by commanding stones to be made into bread to prove His identity. If He had commanded the stones to be made into bread in a righteous manner, it may not have been sin at all. But to have done so merely to prove His power would have been sinful. Where was the sin? Not in His appetite! The sin would have been in "pride." It is not wrong to be hungry, nor is it wrong to eat for strength when one is famished.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #168532
09/30/14 01:02 PM
09/30/14 01:02 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Neither is it wrong to be tempted from within. Believers do not incur guilt or condemnation when their sinful flesh tempts them from within to act out their innocent and legitimate appetites and passions in sinful ways. Jesus stood on vantage ground as He overcame temptations. Believers also stand on vantage ground as they resist temptations. Satan finds nothing in them that he can use to his advantage.

Quote:
Many seem to think that it is impossible not to fall under temptation, that they have no power to overcome; and they sin against God with their lips, talking discouragement and doubt, instead of faith and courage. Christ was tempted in all points like we are, yet without sin. He said, "The prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me." What does this mean?--It means that the prince of evil could find no vantage ground in Christ for his temptation; and so it may be with us. "For we have not a high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." {RH, May 19, 1891 par. 3}

"The prince of this world cometh," said Jesus, "and hath nothing in Me." John 14:30. There was in Him nothing that responded to Satan's sophistry. He did not consent to sin. Not even by a thought did He yield to temptation. So it may be with us. Christ's humanity was united with divinity; He was fitted for the conflict by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And He came to make us partakers of the divine nature. So long as we are united to Him by faith, sin has no more dominion over us. God reaches for the hand of faith in us to direct it to lay fast hold upon the divinity of Christ, that we may attain to perfection of character. {DA 123.3}

Now, while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ. Not even by a thought could our Saviour be brought to yield to the power of temptation. Satan finds in human hearts some point where he can gain a foothold; some sinful desire is cherished, by means of which his temptations assert their power. But Christ declared of Himself: "The prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me." John 14:30. Satan could find nothing in the Son of God that would enable him to gain the victory. He had kept His Father's commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble. {GC 623.1}

Jesus was tempted from within like born again believers. His victory places them on vantage ground.

Quote:
We must have a Defender, and when our Defender came, He was clothed with humanity; for He must be subject to all the temptations wherewith man is beset, that He might understand how to deliver the godly out of temptation. He took His stand at the head of the fallen race, that men and women might be enabled to stand on vantage ground. {LHU 38.2}

Divine culture brings perfection. If in connection with God the work is carried forward, the human agent, through Christ, will day by day gain victory and honor in the battle. Through the grace given he will overcome, and will be placed on vantage ground. In his relation to Christ he will be bone of His bone, flesh of His flesh, one with Christ in a peculiar relationship, because Christ took the humanity of man. He became subject to temptation, endangering as it were, His divine attributes. Satan sought, by the constant and curious devices of his cunning, to make Christ yield to temptation. Man must pass over the ground over which Christ has passed. As Christ overcame every temptation which Satan brought against Him, so man is to overcome. And those who strive earnestly to overcome are brought into a oneness with Christ that the angels in heaven can never know. {7BC 926.5}

The divine culture of men and women will be carried forward to completion only as they are partakers of the divine nature. Thus they may overcome as Christ overcame in their behalf. Through the grace given, fallen man may be placed on vantage ground. Through toil, through patient trust and faith in Jesus Christ, through faithful continuance in well-doing, he may rise to spiritual victory (Letter 5, 1900). {7BC 926.6}

Satan was determined to succeed in his temptation of the sinless Adam and Eve. And he could reach even this holy pair more successfully through the medium of appetite than in any other way. The fruit of the forbidden tree seemed pleasant to the eye and desirable to the taste. They ate and fell. They transgressed God's just command and became sinners. Satan's triumph was complete. He then had the vantage-ground over the race. He flattered himself that, through his subtlety, he had thwarted the purpose of God in the creation of man. {2Red 12.3}

He reinstated man in the position from which Satan had hurled him through temptation and sin, and, by his own perfect obedience to the law of God, placed him on vantage ground. In his death he broke the spell that had held millions in slavery, under perfect subjection to Satan's rule and jurisdiction. {ST, March 26, 1894 par. 6}

By overcoming in man's behalf, He [Christ] was placing fallen man on vantage ground with God. In His human nature Jesus gave evidence that in every temptation wherewith Satan shall assail fallen man, there is help for him in God, if he will take hold of His strength, and through obedience make peace with Him. Jesus stood forth in human nature a conqueror in behalf of the fallen race.--Ms 49, 1897, p. 9. {17MR 24.5}

The fact Satan finds nothing in them he can use to his advantage doesn't mean they are endowed with sinless flesh. It simply means Jesus empowers them to resist the unholy clamorings of their sinful flesh through the same means Jesus resisted them - partaking of the divine nature.

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #168533
09/30/14 01:19 PM
09/30/14 01:19 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
What makes flesh "sinful"? You speak of "sinful flesh." What does that mean to you? If it got that way from sinful choices, how did Jesus have it?

What Jesus had was sin-weakened flesh as an inheritance from His sinner-ancestors. He Himself did not in any way further weaken His flesh through sin. He never sinned. How could His flesh tempt Him? It's not a sin to feel tired, or weak, or thirsty, or hungry. It would be a sin to feel depressed, irritated, proud, or angry without just cause. Because these latter feelings are sinful, Jesus never had them. Not a bit of them. His "flesh" could not "feel" any sinful feelings and therefore "tempt" Him, when the sinful feelings were never there to begin with.

So I really do not know why you keep doggedly referring to Jesus' "sinful flesh."

Mrs. White used the same wording that we find in Paul's writings: "the likeness of sinful flesh." Jesus came in a "likeness" of sinful flesh, not in sinful flesh. We are different. In speaking of our flesh, Mrs. White says it more plainly. We have "sinful flesh." She doesn't say Jesus had sinful flesh. She says He came "in the likeness of sinful flesh."

Remember Adam and Eve? They were made in the likeness of God, right? Does that mean that they were the same as God? Obviously not. The word "likeness" does not mean "equal." It means "similar." As such, while Jesus came in flesh that was similar to our sinful flesh, His was not sinful; even as Adam and Eve were made in the likeness of God, but they were not God. That point must be understood before anything else in this topic can approach a correct understanding.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #168542
09/30/14 03:04 PM
09/30/14 03:04 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
1. It doesn't require sinning to be tempted.
2. Sinning is a choice - not a condition.
3. Not new light. It has never been a sin to eat cheese.
Why do you think it's not a sin to eat cheese?

Page 60 of 73 1 2 58 59 60 61 62 72 73

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
What are the seven kings of Rev. 17:10?
by Rick H. 11/23/24 07:31 AM
No mail in Canada?
by Rick H. 11/22/24 06:45 PM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 11/21/24 11:03 AM
Fourth quarter, 2024, The Gospel of John
by asygo. 11/20/24 02:31 AM
The 2024 Election, the Hegelian Dialectic
by ProdigalOne. 11/15/24 08:26 PM
"The Lord's Day" and Ignatius
by dedication. 11/15/24 02:19 AM
The Doctrine of the Nicolaitans
by dedication. 11/14/24 04:00 PM
Will Trump be able to lead..
by dedication. 11/13/24 07:13 PM
Is Lying Ever Permitted?
by kland. 11/13/24 05:04 PM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 11/13/24 04:06 PM
Profiles Of Jesus In Zecharia
by dedication. 11/13/24 02:23 AM
Good and Evil of Higher Critical Bible Study
by dedication. 11/12/24 07:31 PM
The Great White Throne
by dedication. 11/12/24 06:39 PM
A god whom his fathers knew not..
by TruthinTypes. 11/05/24 12:19 AM
Understanding the Battle of Armageddon
by Rick H. 10/25/24 07:25 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
Dr Ben Carson: Church and State
by Rick H. 11/22/24 07:12 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by dedication. 11/22/24 04:02 PM
Will Trump Pass The Sunday Law?
by dedication. 11/22/24 12:51 PM
Understanding the 1,260-year Prophecy
by dedication. 11/22/24 12:35 PM
Private Schools
by Rick H. 11/22/24 07:54 AM
The Church is Suing the State of Maryland
by Rick H. 11/16/24 04:43 PM
Has the Catholic Church Changed?
by TheophilusOne. 11/16/24 08:53 AM
Dr Conrad Vine Banned
by Rick H. 11/15/24 06:11 AM
Understanding the 1290 & 1335 of Daniel 12?
by dedication. 11/05/24 03:16 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1