Before we begin our second part of the report on the "pre-millennial" kingdom, let us review what we showed in part 1--

1) Sister Ellen White, while a true prophet of God, could not have been given 'all" the light to carry us home to His kingdom. For she was not the Elijah to come, of which the Lord specifically said He would send right before the "great and dreadful day of the Lord."(Mal. 4:5)

2) Therefore, as she herself admitted, no prophet however honored of heaven has ever attained to a "full understanding" of the great plan of redemption.."(GC, p.343). For one to say that sister White did what no other prophet has ever done is to have the same inexcusable and fatal stand as did the Jews, with ther claim of Moses being an "end all".

3)The statements relative to a subject which is still out of sight in the unfolding of the Scroll, are made incidental terms of truth as commonly understood at that time.

Ok let us begin-- (my comments will be in parenthesis)

"..in Christ’s day “the doctrine of a conscious state of existence between death and the resurrection was held by many of those who were listening to Christ’s words. The Saviour knew of their ideas, and He framed his parable so as to inculcate important truths through these preconceived opinions.

He held up before His hearers a mirror wherein they might see themselves in their true relation to God. He used the prevailing opinion to convey the idea He wished to make prominent to all....”---Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 263.

This circumstance is natural and common to every writer treating of Present Truth, beginning with the Old Testament writers, and continuing ever since, and will thus be until every component part of the Truth is made known. This is borne out in the work of John the Baptist.

He was to proclaim, not the setting up of the Kingdom, but the coming of the King. But in announcing the one, he incidentally had to answer questions concerning the other. When speaking of the coming King, he expressed himself in terms of revealed Truth.

But when circumstantially alluding to the coming Kingdom, on which there was no special light in his day, he necessarily expressed himself in terms of the doctrines as then commonly understood.

Nevertheless, when the further unrolling of the scroll revealed that the Kingdom was not to be set up at that time, then the honest, truth-seeking ones did not accuse either John or Christ, but joyously watched the scroll unfold, and jubilantly marched on with the Truth.

Not so, though, with the vast majority of the Jews. Their pride of opinion, forbidding them to forgo their errors and to embrace advancing Truth, led them deeper into error.

“Thus it was,” says the Spirit of Prophecy, “that the Jews did in the days of Christ, and we are warned not to do as they did, and be led to choose darkness rather than light, because there was in them an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God.”-Testimonies on Sabbath-School Work, p. 66; Counsels on Sabbath School Work, p. 30.

So The Great Controversy and Early Writings make the subject of the Kingdom just as clear as the partial unrolling of the scroll permitted the writer to view it, in only one of its phases, at the time she wrote both books.

While The Great Controversy may omit showing that the establishment of the Kingdom and the inheriting of it are two different events, elsewhere the Spirit of Prophecy does do so: While the apostles, it says, “were not to behold the coming of the kingdom in their day, the fact that Jesus bade them pray for it, is evidence that in God’s own time it will surely come."

“The Kingdom of God’s grace is now being established, as day by day hearts that have been full of sin and rebellion yield to the sovereignty of His love. But thefull establishment of the kingdom of His glory will not take place until the second coming of Christ to this world. ‘The kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven,’ is to be given to ‘the people of he saints of the Most High.”’-Mount of Blessing, p. 159.

Every Christian should remember that as the Truth is ever-advancing It will not be found today where It was yesterday and that therefore Christ’s followers must advance with It. They will not follow the examples of the Jews and the Romans.

When Moses wrote the first part of the Bible, he was not given all the light which God intended to reveal to His people through the ages. With each approaching hour for the Truth to advance, came first one prophet, then another, in a long succession ending with John the Baptist.

hen came Christ, the apostles, the reformers, William Miller and Sister White, each one in turn teaching truths which could not be borne out entirely by the writings of any one predecessor. To find all the Truth thus progressively revealed, the writings of all must be collaborated.

For instance, in setting forth the law of the Passover, and in commanding its observance Moses wrote: “Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep or from the goats: and ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.” Ex. 12:5, 6.

The reason which Moses assigns for the Passover observance is that it is to commemorate Israel’s going out of Egypt (Deut. 16:1-3).

John the Baptist, however, imputes its significance to the coming of Christ, “the Lamb of God” (John 1:29), while the apostles assign it to His crucifixion: “For even Christ our passover,” says Paul, “is sacrificed for us.” 1 Cor. 5:7. And the significance of keeping the Passover, he then attaches to the ordinance of the Lord’s supper (1 Cor. 11:26).

Similarly, Moses did not explain that the Levitical priesthood in the earthly sanctuary (Ex. 40:15) was only a provisional and thus a temporary one, a figure of Christ’s priesthood in the heavenly sanctuary, as the apostles explained (Heb. 6:19, 20; 9:12, 26).

Failing to advance with the advancing Truth, each generation of Jews found fault with its respective prophets, culminating with the apostles and the very Son of God Himself. The Jews justified their criminal actions on the ground that the claims of their prophets, of Christ, and of the apostles, were not founded upon Moses’ writings. So while boasting of Moses’ writings, they denied and killed the prophets who came after him---a solemn warning to us, lest doing as they did, we meet their fate!

(Here I would like to comment that this is why we must be very careful not to be like the Jews , in regards to sister White's writings. The promised Elijah will obviously have more light, which sister White did not have. To believe otherwise is to deny the Lord's promises and word.)

The main question therefore is not as to whether Sister White’s or Moses’ or this one’s or that one’s writings contain all the messages for this day, but rather simply as to whether they are found in, and supported by, the Bible.

The Rod consequently does not claim that its message is found in its entirety in the writings of any one particular prophet, but rather in the writings of all the prophets---“here a little, and there a little.” Isa. 28:13.

Let none, therefore, treacherously use Sister White’s writings, as the Jews used Moses’ writings, against the advance of Truth, and to their own eternal hurt. From every angle approached, the Bible clears the subject of the Kingdom, making impossible one’s erring if he follows precisely what the Word says concerning it.

The Rod does not teach either that Jerusalem is to be rebuilt, or that it is not to be rebuilt, as the capital city of the Kingdom, but only that the Kingdom in its beginning is to be set up in the Promised Land. And in confirmation of this truth, Ezekiel prophesies of

A New Division of The Land.

The prophet presents a division of the land entirely different from that in Joshua’s time (Josh. 17): it is to be in strips from the east to the west; Dan is to have the first portion in the north, and Gad, the last portion in the south between the borders of these two are to be the portions of the rest of the tribes; the city is to be in the midst of the land (Ezek. 48).

The fact that such a division of the Promised Land has never been made, shows that it is yet future. Also the fact that the sanctuary is to be there, whereas it is not to be in the earth made new (Rev. 21:22), again proves that this unique setup is pre-millennial.

In addition, the twofold fact that the name of the city is “The Lord is There,” and that its location, according to the division of the land, necessarily must in some respects be different from that of old Jerusalem, shows that Jerusalem of today, the city proper, may not at all be rebuilt as a capital city of the coming Kingdom. (See Tract No. 12 The World Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow, 1941 Edition, pp. 52, 53).

If the Bible makes Itself clear on any subject It certainly does so on the subject of the Kingdom. And rightly so, for the Kingdom is the Christian’s crowning hope,

Satan’s Constant Target, the People’s Repeated Stumbling Block.

That the great controversy between Christ and Satan is over this crowning hope, the Kingdom, is seen from the Lord’s repeated instructions in the prophecies, in the types, and in the parables; from Satan’s constant effort to keep the human race out of it; and last, from human beings repeatedly being defeated in their warfare to become heirs of it.

Working determinedly from the beginning to plunge all humanity into hell, Satan conceived his major strategy of misleading them concerning the Kingdom. He succeeded with most of the Jews because they wanted the Kingdom set up before its appointed time or not at all.

And he is succeeding with many of the Laodiceans today because now, when the time appointed actually has come, they want to have it later or not at all! What a paradox! What an irony! Indeed, as history repeats itself, so does folly!

The Bible says: “In the days of these kings [the kings that are symbolized by the ten toes of the great image] shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed. ...It shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms.” Dan. 2:44.

Observe that “the stone” (the Kingdom) does not become a great mountain until after it smites the image, showing that the Kingdom begins in its infancy with only the first fruits, who soon stand on Mount Zion with the Lamb, and who later, after they have garnered in the second fruits of the living, smite the nations; finally there come from the grave the saved of all ages fully to make up the “great mountain”---the Kingdom complete!

(Spare yourself the search--Ellen White never once said the stone was Christ through out her writings-- sadly this has become a real Satan misconception! we hope to do a study on Daniel 2 soon)

In the face of these clear-cut and repeatedly chronicled prophecies, may no one be so foolish as to say, as did the Jews in response to Ezekiel’s prophecies, “The vision that he seeth is for many days to come, and he prophesieth of the times that are far off” (Ezek. 12:27), thereby bringing upon his head the same dreadful doom.(Answerer, Q-42, vol. 2)

(There is much more to be said about this kingdom and as time allows we'll add more. The kingdom is pointed out in Revelation(14:1-5) when the 144,000 stand on Mt. Zion with the Lord, showing that no devil kingdom is there, rather the Lord, whom has rose up from His mediatorial duties and has traveled to the earth (Ezekiel chapter 1) has now join with His elect prior to the Loud Cry. a sort of high level meeting which the last headquarters are to be set up in Israel)

"They will question and criticize everything that arises in the unfolding of truth, criticize the work and position of others, criticize every branch of the work in which they have not themselves a part. They will feed upon the errors and mistakes and faults of others, “until,” said the angel, the Lord Jesus shall rise up from His mediatorial work in the heavenly sanctuary and shall clothe Himself with the garments of vengeance and surprise them at their unholy feast, and they will find themselves unprepared for the marriage supper of the Lamb.”(Testimonies, vol. 5, p.690)

Notice that this rising up and coming to surprise them is in the "unfolding of truth" not after the truth has been proclaimed.

Bottom line-- those who believe that His word will not produce His soon to come kingdom based in the Holy land, shall indeed not receive it at all. For if we miss it at the beginning we shall miss it for eternity. Shalom.

Again the study begins with a call to setting EGW aside for this "study", because she didn't know these things. (And indeed she didn't know anything about God's people being called to go to Old Jerusalem and having a work to do there, she spoke against that idea) Quite a few points are in contradiction to EGW, that's why they insist she can't be quoted when dealing with this subject.

But OK -- let's look at scripture.



You know -- I can fully agree with the words written there, but knowing that GLL is trying to lead people to a kingdom in OLD JERUSALEM alerts me to the fact that I do not agree.

Yes, indeed the crowning hope is the kingdom!

But what is that kingdom?

When we look at Christ's teachings of the kingdom a completely different picture emerges, then any idea of an earthly literal kingdom in Palestine. --

We find that
Christ is interested in a "kingdom within"
A kingdom that grows in the hearts and minds of people.

Christ makes it quite plain that is the only kingdom here on earth prior to His second coming.

Just browse all the "kingdom" references in Christ's teachings.
Most deal with the "kingdom" within -- dealing with how God's spirit abiding in the life and changes that life.

The message Jesus preached -- "the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Mat. 3:2; 4:17,23; 10:7; 16:19)
No, it was not a physical kingdom, but the kingdom of grace -- the kingdom within.

Matt. 5 repeatedly speaks of the "kingdom of heaven"
As does Matt. 7:21; 11:11-12; 18:1-4, 23: 19:12,14, 24, and many more.
Chapter 13 speaks of the "kingdom of heaven" eight times,

No this is not speaking of a kingdom in Old Jerusalem

Matt. 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;
This verse equates seeking God's kingdom to seeking His righteousness, not seeking a place in Palestine.

Matt. 8:11 speaks of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob sitting down in the kingdom of heaven, while their children are cast out.
Again speaking of this as the kingdom of heaven.
Matt. 9:35 calls it the "gospel of the kingdom".

There are also references to entering the kingdom prepared for you -- at Christ's second coming (not before)


The kingdom we are to concentrate on now is a kingdom that comes without observation. It is a kingdom that the Holy Spirit develops within us, to fit us for the "kingdom of heaven" when Christ comes.

LUKE 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see [it].
17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after [them], nor follow [them].
17:24 For as the lightning, that lightens out of the one [part] under heaven, shines unto the other [part] under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

Daniel 2 gives a graphic picture of a stone hitting the image -- and what happens?

"Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth."

So when will Christ's kingdom fill the whole earth? Will it be before or after His second coming?

Indeed, it does not become a great mountain until after it smites the image. This kingdom will not exist contemporaneously with any of those four kingdoms, or kings, or papacy, that are part of the iron and clay phase.

For what happens when it smites the image?
The image gets blown away AND NO PLACE IS FOUND FOR THEM.
That happens BEFORE the mountain fills the earth.


And remember Daniel tells us it's a
"kingdom, which shall never be destroyed"
"it shall stand for ever" Daniel 2:44

All literal, geographical kingdoms on earth will be destroyed at Christ's second coming, for the earth is desolate for 1000 years.

Now we know the MESSAGE of the kingdom of GRACE will "lighten" the whole earth prior to Christ's coming, but that is NOT a literal kingdom that destroys the kings and nations and sets up a literal geographical kingdom with a human (antitypical David) king and destroys the nations and will stand for ever.

Also, the kings and nations and "beast" power are still there when Christ comes for we see these nations and kings gathered together to fight against the KING of kings, when He comes in the second coming.
See Rev. 19.

We see them destroyed when CHRIST comes with His "armies" from heaven.





As to WHO or WHAT is the stone --
Scripture repeatedly says Jesus is the "Rock of Ages" the Stone which the builders disallowed.

Psalms 118:22
Isaiah 8:13-14; 28:16
Matt. 21:42-43 21:44
Acts 4:10-12
Ephesians 2:20

Psalms 18:2, 31, 46
Psalms 95:1

Ded- You know -- I can fully agree with the words written there, but knowing that GLL is trying to lead people to a kingdom in OLD JERUSALEM alerts me to the fact that I do not agree.

Stick around, you just might find more you can "fuly agree with". No it is not I it is His word, which Dedication steadfastly denies. That's okay the Truth will win, amen!

Ded- We find that
Christ is interested in a "kingdom within"
A kingdom that grows in the hearts and minds of people.

Christ makes it quite plain that is the only kingdom here on earth prior to His second coming.

Christ is behind His holy Scriptures, we'll see what HE SAYS. as far as the quote about "within" let's look at what that really means--

THE KINGDOM OF GOD IN THE HEART OR ON THE EARTH?

Question No. 45:

Since Jesus says “the kingdom of God is within” us (Luke 17:21), how, then, can it be an earthly kingdom?

Answer:

If the statement in question means that there is to be no Kingdom of God on earth, then by the same token of reasoning it must also mean that neither is there to be any kingdom in heaven. And if there is to be none on earth, and none in heaven, then our hope is vain. But, as always, that which proves too much, proves nothing.

Consequently, to stand upon the proposition in the question is to take the position that there is to be no literal kingdom either on earth or in heaven, but only a spiritual kingdom within the heart, which is to reduce the subject to an absurdity.

It is to play right into the hands of the Devil, who would desperately like to black-out the Kingdom truth, and relegate the Kingdom itself to oblivion. But in this, thank God the Word assures us he is doomed to certain failure.

So before the Kingdom of God is established on this earth, it must indeed be spiritually established within us if we are ever to qualify for admission when it is physically established upon “earth, as it is in heaven.”

Accordingly, the spiritual kingdom of God within, is within those who embody the principles of its rule before the physical Kingdom is established. So the kingdom of God “within” is the regimen of the spiritual life; it is prerequisite to an inheritance in the external Kingdom of God." (Answerer, vol.2, Q-45)

*************************

All the quotes Dedication uses are good ones and have there place in the Scriptures. But do they negate His promises said though out the OT Scriptures? No, they must compliment them , else we have a double faced and minded God, God forbid!

We'll look at them as time allows. This subject is indeed VERY important! As far as Daniel 2 goes that is an in-depth study which we can bring out soon, God willing.

That's right -- his answer proves nothing. He builds a straw man and shoots it down.


The Pharisees (and disciples and all the Jews for that matter) were expecting a Messiah who would come drive out the Romans and exalt the Jewish nation into being the rulers of the world. They wanted an earthly kingdom.


John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:
Notice he doesn't say "My kingdom in this world will come later" or "Right now my kingdom is not of this world"
It's simply "My kingdom is not of this world".

His "forever" literal kingdom will not be set up in this sinful world.

We also know that "flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God". So how can a literal "pre-second coming" kingdom be the kingdom of God?




Also the text in Luke makes it perfectly clear that there is no geographical kingdom to be anywhere on this earth prior to Christ's coming.



PHARISEES ASK CHRIST WHEN KINGDOM WOULD BE ESTABLISHED:

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come,

DON'T EXPECT TO SEE A LITERAL KINGDOM

he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

NO LITERAL GEOGRAPHICAL PLACE

17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

DISCIPLES WILL BE LONGING FOR KINGDOM

17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

BUT WARNED NOT TO LISTEN TO A CALL TO A GEOGRAPHICAL KINGDOM

17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after [them], nor follow them.

WHEN WILL THE KINGDOM OF GLORY COME?

17:24 For as the lightning, that lightens out of the one [part] under heaven, shines unto the other [part] under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Houteff writes: "Consequently, to stand upon the proposition in the question is to take the position that there is to be no literal kingdom either on earth or in heaven, but only a spiritual kingdom within the heart, which is to reduce the subject to an absurdity".

Indeed his interpretation is absurdity.
For Christ saying that there will be no geographical kingdom anywhere, not here, not there, etc. etc, in our present world, is NOT denying God's kingdom or the glorious kingdom on an earth made new.

Again he is simply building a straw man and shooting it down, to cause people to ignore the PLAIN WORDS of SCRIPTURE.

During our lives here on earth prior to the coming of our Lord, there is only ONE kingdom of extreme importance that needs to be growing in our lives and shared with all around us.
And that is the kingdom of grace -- Christ within -- changing our lives, our hearts, our minds, and yes -- fitting us for His glorious kingdom, a kingdom not of this world, but of heaven and earth made new.

Ded- During our lives here on earth prior to the coming of our Lord, there is only ONE kingdom of extreme importance that needs to be growing in our lives and shared with all around us.
And that is the kingdom of grace -- Christ within -- changing our lives, our hearts, our minds, and yes -- fitting us for His glorious kingdom, a kingdom not of this world, but of heaven and earth made new.

Acts 1:6, 7

"When they therefore had come together, they asked Him, saying, Lord will Thou at this time restore again The Kingdom to Israel."

Did you get the question? Will you at this time restore again, The Kingdom to Israel. A good question. You see they had the Kingdom once before. And now they wanted to know. Now that you have been resurrected Lord, Now that you have been glorified, Will you now give us the Kingdom? Jesus answer was simply this.

"And He said unto them, It is not for you to know the time, or the times of the seasons which the Father hath put in His own power." In other words, He did not tell them that the Kingdom was not to be established. He simply said, It is not for you to know when. Of course we know it was not to be in their day. But He did not tell them that.

Perhaps it would have discouraged them. Kept them from preaching the Gospel with all of their might. But the Lord in His Wisdom kept that from them. But the Bible does tell us when The Kingdom Of God's Glory is going to be established.

"And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem" (Isaiah 4:3)

"The purging and cleansing will surely pass through every church in our land that has had great opportunities and privileges, and has passed them by unheeded. More evidence is not what they want. They need pure and sanctified hearts to gather up and retain all the light that God has given, and then they will walk in that light. TM 414.1

Let us look at another powerful word of God with NO contingencies--

Jeremiah 30:3:

"For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it"

Now you may be saying, "Now wait a minute, are we saying that we'll be going back to Palestine?" Well the Bible did say that, that God's people would one day return back to the land that He gave to their fathers. That land is of course the promise land.

You say, "Now wait a minute, that cannot be." Well the Bible says that. Well perhaps you may say, "Well that happened in Jeremiah's day" Well it is true that in Jeremiah's day He predicted that the Jewish people would return back to Jerusalem, from Babylon.

You remember they were in captivity for 70 years and after that captivity, they were allowed to return back to their homeland. That is Palestine, Canaan. And there in that land they once again established themselves as a nation. That is true.

It did happen in Jeremiah's day. However this prophecy calls for all 12 tribes to return. Both Israel and Judah. All 12 tribes. In Jeremiah's day, the 10 tribes did not exist as a nation. They had been scattered well over a hundred years prior to that. In fact they were scattered in 721 BC.

And God's people the Jews had returned from Babylon to Jerusalem at around 536 BC. So it shows that this is not talking about Jeremiah's time.

Acts 1:6, 7

"When they therefore had come together, they asked Him, saying, Lord will Thou at this time restore again The Kingdom to Israel."



GLL: Did you get the question? Will you at this time restore again, The Kingdom to Israel.


Yes, they still had hopes of an earthly kingdom.



GLL wrote: "And He said unto them, It is not for you to know the time, or the times of the seasons which the Father hath put in His own power." In other words, He did not tell them that the Kingdom was not to be established. He simply said, It is not for you to know when.

That's an argument built on silence. Jesus simply didn't get into the matter further.
The KINGDOM will be restored to true Israel (those in Christ) after the second coming. But it won't be located in old Jerusalem.
It will be new Jerusalem with the names of the 12 tribes on its twelve gate. (see Rev. 21)


GLL wrote: "And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem" (Isaiah 4:3)

I guess Jerusalem will not be very safe if only a few will be left.

Don't you think a little inconsistent
When ever the prophets speak of Jerusalem being punished or destroyed it seems SR believers say "Jerusalem = Adventist church".
When ever the prophets speak of people being gathered to Jerusalem, it seems SR believers say "Jerusalem - means Jerusalem the city over their in Palestine the place for the kingdom."




Jeremiah 30:3:

"For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

GLL wrote: this prophecy calls for all 12 tribes to return. Both Israel and Judah. All 12 tribes. In Jeremiah's day, the 10 tribes did not exist as a nation.


Contrary to the claim, that text is initially talking about their return after exile.

It isn't saying ALL tribes are returning in full as a nation.

Yet there were representatives from other tribes than Judah and Benjamin that did return.

For one thing the tribe of Simeon was merged into the tribe of Judah, the tribe of Levi was also present.
When the northern kingdom was under attack, many fled to Judah. Some historians indicate that Jerusalem expanded greatly during that time.

We find Israelites were dwelling in the cities of Judea
2 Cor 31:6 And [concerning] the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah.

Actually from Jewish Historians we hear that all the twelve tribes of Israel were very much in evidence to the people of Jerusalem in the first century. One of the most erroneous teachings being disseminated today is that the Northern Ten Tribes of Israel were lost.



A lot of Houteff's teachings seem to make a big thing out of any reference to Israel, with all the illogical conclusions that those texts can't be referring to history because the house of Israel was "lost".

James, who wrote a book in scripture, must have known where members of the twelve tribes of Israel were in the first century and he addressed his letter to them. "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes scattered abroad, greeting" (James 1:1).

James letter to these 12 tribes shows they themselves were in touch with Jerusalem and the teachings of the Holy Scriptures.

The apostle Paul also seemed to know people from the twelve tribes:
"And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come" (Acts 26:6,7).

The new Testament speaks of the House of Israel as being present.
Luke 1:68 Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
Luke 7:9 I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
John 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:


Jeremiah's gathering applies to the return of the exiles
-- referring to the re-gathering near the beginning of the 490 years.

"He declared that it was not His purpose to establish in this world a temporal kingdom." AA 30

yes, true words from Christ, however we must balance that with SOP as follows--

That which God purposed to do for the world through Israel, the chosen nation, He will finally accomplish through His church on earth today. He has “let out His vineyard unto other husbandmen,” even to His covenant-keeping people, who faithfully “render Him the fruits in their seasons.”

Never has the Lord been without true representatives on this earth who have made His interests their own. These witnesses for God are numbered among the spiritual Israel, and to them will be fulfilled all the covenant promises made by Jehovah to His ancient people.

God's word to Israel was six convenants and one of them was to return them to Palestine, as His word promises over and over again in OT.

So what do we have one text against another? God forbid. This is where the Spirit of Truth must guide (John 16:13)

Ded-I guess Jerusalem will not be very safe if only a few will be left


Mocking His word again. God help you. We have attempted to show you already , (which you rejected) that each of the prophets spoke more for "US" than for their own time. And that "Israel" is indicative of the SDA church today. Gave many references but one of the clear ones is Testimonies, vol, 9, p.164.

Ded-It isn't saying ALL tribes are returning in full as a nation.

Oh yeah? Sorry if you cannot see the plain word of God, but it says " Israel and Judah" which are the WHOLE nation of Israel--all 12 tribes. You again deny the plain word of God and must destroy it's clear word to further your "no-kingdom" agenda- sad!

This reminds me of Satan and his same way of destroying God's plain word--God said 'You shall die" if they ate the fruit. Satan said "you shall not die". The clear word of God--destroyed. His tatics have not changed!

Ded- Actually from Jewish Historians we hear that all the twelve tribes of Israel were very much in evidence to the people of Jerusalem in the first century. One of the most erroneous teachings being disseminated today is that the Northern Ten Tribes of Israel were lost.

Let us run with this idea. if we say that the 10 tribes were STILL in existance in James's time or any other time, what do we have? A prophecy STILL not fulfilled! So this promise is made from the mouth of God (word) and shall not be returned void. There are no contingencies here. Search it out.

Show a contingency of this promise to us by way of Jerimiah

So what we have here is God's promise to restore His people to His land--Israel. Now, if you think that means the unbelieving Jews, then I can't help you, as the Spirit of Truth is truly stuck in your life.

I do give you credit , you are crafty and pull some tricky rabbits out of the hats . But those who look deeper can see your twistings and agenda, very clear.

It comes down to "Dedication's" interpretations against God's PLAIN word and promises. Be very serious here my brethren. Private interpretations lead to a sad sad road and outcome.


Ded- Jeremiah's gathering applies to the return of the exiles
-- referring to the re-gathering near the beginning of the 490 years.

Again, never since Jeremiah's day do we have any Scriptural evidence that ALL 12 tribes came back to Israel. Provide us this, or SOP, not your mixing and splicing together quotes from here and there to make believe your idea.

"He declared that it was not His purpose to establish in this world a temporal kingdom." AA 30

Yes, we do need to balance the statements --
And which way do the balances tip?

The balance of EGW writings do NOT support this kingdom in Palestine theory.
You are taking a vague quote here and their and trying to make it fit your kingdom theory; it's like taking a chisel and chipping off a few little pebbles and slivers of rock from the boulders of evidence on the other side and trying to weigh them in the balance against those heavy boulders that deny the theory.

Let's go through the quote above-- what does she mean by it?

What is it that God proposed to do through ancient Israel?
And what is it that is being fulfilled?

EGW gives the answer -- you don't have to speculate


Chapter 59 in Prophets and Kings

"The House of Israel"
In proclaiming the truths of the everlasting gospel to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, God's church on earth today is fulfilling the ancient prophecy, "Israel shall blossom and bud, and fill the face of the world with fruit." Isaiah 27:6. The followers of Jesus, in co-operation with heavenly intelligences, are rapidly occupying the waste places of the earth; and, as the result of their labors, an abundant fruitage of precious souls is developing. Today, as never before, the dissemination of Bible truth by means of a consecrated church is bringing to the sons of men the benefits foreshadowed centuries ago in the promise to Abraham and to all Israel,--to God's church on earth in every age,--"I will bless thee, . . . and thou shalt be a blessing." Genesis 12:2.


This promise of blessing should have met fulfillment in large measure during the centuries following the return of the Israelites from the lands of their captivity. It was God's
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design that the whole earth be prepared for the first advent of Christ, even as today the way is preparing for His second coming. At the end of the years of humiliating exile, God graciously gave to His people Israel, through Zechariah, the assurance: "I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain." And of His people He said, "Behold, . . . I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness." Zechariah 8:3, 7, 8.

These promises were conditional on obedience. The sins that had characterized the Israelites prior to the captivity, were not to be repeated. "Execute true judgment," the Lord exhorted those who were engaged in rebuilding; "and show mercy and compassions every man to his brother: and oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother." "Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbor; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates." Zechariah 7:9, 10; 8:16.

Rich were the rewards, both temporal and spiritual, promised those who should put into practice these principles of righteousness. "The seed shall be prosperous," the Lord declared; "the vine shall give her fruit, and the ground shall give her increase, and the heavens shall give their dew; and I will cause the remnant of this people to possess all these things. And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so I will save you, and ye shall be a blessing." Zechariah 8:12, 13.

As a nation, the people of Israel, while desiring the advent of the Messiah, were so far separated from God in heart and life that they could have no true conception of the character or mission of the promised Redeemer. Instead of desiring redemption from sin, and the glory and peace of holiness, their hearts were fixed upon deliverance from their national foes, and restoration to worldly power. They looked for Messiah to come as a conqueror, to break every yoke, and exalt Israel to dominion over all nations. Thus Satan had succeeded in preparing the hearts of the people to
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reject the Saviour when He should appear. Their own pride of heart, and their false conceptions of His character and mission, would prevent them from honestly weighing the evidences of His Messiahship.

For more than a thousand years the Jewish people had waited the coming of the promised Saviour. Their brightest hopes had rested upon this event. For a thousand years, in song and prophecy, in temple rite and household prayer, His name had been enshrined; and yet when He came, they did not recognize Him as the Messiah for whom they had so long waited. "He came unto His own, and His own received Him not." John 1:11. To their world-loving hearts the Beloved of heaven was "as a root out of a dry ground." In their eyes He had "no form nor comeliness;" they discerned in Him no beauty that they should desire Him. Isaiah 53:2.

In the parable of the vineyard, Christ near the close of His earthly ministry called the attention of the Jewish teachers to the rich blessings bestowed upon Israel, and in these showed God's claim to their obedience. Plainly He set
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before them the glory of God's purpose, which through obedience they might have fulfilled. Withdrawing the veil from the future, He showed how, by failure to fulfill His purpose, the whole nation was forfeiting His blessing and bringing ruin upon itself.


Having portrayed before the priests their crowning act of wickedness, Christ now put to them the question, "When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?" The priests had been following the narrative with deep interest; and without considering the relation of the subject to themselves, they joined
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with the people in answering, "He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons."

Unwittingly they had pronounced their own doom. Jesus looked upon them, and under His searching gaze they knew that He read the secrets of their hearts. His divinity flashed out before them with unmistakable power. They saw in the husbandmen a picture of themselves, and they involuntarily exclaimed, "God forbid!"

Solemnly and regretfully Christ asked: "Did ye never read in the Scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." Matthew 21:34-44.


Christ would have averted the doom of the Jewish nation if the people had received Him. But envy and jealousy made them implacable. They determined that they would not receive Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah. They rejected the Light of the world, and henceforth their lives were surrounded with darkness as the darkness of midnight. The doom foretold came upon the Jewish nation. Their own fierce passions, uncontrolled, wrought their ruin. In their blind rage they destroyed one another. Their rebellious, stubborn pride brought upon them the wrath of their Roman
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conquerors. Jerusalem was destroyed, the temple laid in ruins, and its site plowed like a field. The children of Judah perished by the most horrible forms of death. Millions were sold to serve as bondmen in heathen lands.

The next paragraph in Prophets and Kings is the one GLL quoted,
but read the full context in the post above and the paragraphs following:

CHAPTER 59 continued:

That which God purposed to do for the world through Israel, the chosen nation, He will finally accomplish through His church on earth today. He has "let out His vineyard
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unto other husbandmen," even to His covenant-keeping people, who faithfully "render Him the fruits in their seasons." Never has the Lord been without true representatives on this earth who have made His interests their own. These witnesses for God are numbered among the spiritual Israel, and to them will be fulfilled all the covenant promises made by Jehovah to His ancient people.

Today the church of God is free to carry forward to completion the divine plan for the salvation of a lost race. For many centuries God's people suffered a restriction of their liberties. The preaching of the gospel in its purity was prohibited, and the severest of penalties were visited upon those who dared disobey the mandates of men. As a consequence, the Lord's great moral vineyard was almost wholly unoccupied. The people were deprived of the light of God's word. The darkness of error and superstition threatened to blot out a knowledge of true religion. God's church on earth was as verily in captivity during this long period of relentless persecution as were the children of Israel held captive in Babylon during the period of the exile.

But, thank God, His church is no longer in bondage. To spiritual Israel have been restored the privileges accorded the people of God at the time of their deliverance from Babylon. In every part of the earth, men and women are responding to the Heaven-sent message which John the revelator prophesied would be proclaimed prior to the second coming of Christ: "Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come." Revelation 14:7.
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No longer have the hosts of evil power to keep the church captive; for "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city," which hath "made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication;" and to spiritual Israel is given the message, "Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Verse 8; 18:4. As the captive exiles heeded the message, "Flee out of the midst of Babylon" (Jeremiah 51:6), and were restored to the Land of Promise, so those who fear God today are heeding the message to withdraw from spiritual Babylon, and soon they are to stand as trophies of divine grace in the earth made new, the heavenly Canaan.