This afternoon we shall study Zechariah 8. The first thing we need to know in the study of this chapter is whether its promises are made to the people of Zechariah's time or to the people of our time. To find this out, it is necessary for us to read a few scattered verses. We shall begin with--

Zech. 8:7, 8 -- "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Behold, I will save My people from the east country, and from the west country; and I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, in Truth and in righteousness."

In these verses we see that God is promising to save His people not from the land of ancient Babylon, where Zechariah then was, but from the east and from the west, and to bring them to Jerusalem. They are to be His people, not by virtue of their ancestry, or by some other, but in Truth and righteousness.

Now, since the promise in these verses did not meet its fulfillment in Zechariah's day, nor at any time thereafter, it stands to reason that it must meet its fulfillment sometime in the future. Let us read--

Zech. 8:13 -- "And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong."

Besides promising to save His people from the east and from the west, the Lord promises to save also the house of Judah and the house of Israel, both of the scattered ancient kingdoms. You are well acquainted with the fact that the ten-tribe kingdom constituted the house of Israel.

And since these two kingdoms have never yet been united and brought back to Jerusalem, there is but one logical conclusion to be reached: The promises of this chapter are to be fulfilled in the time of the "gathering of the people" from the four corners of the earth. In view of this great and grand work the Lord expects our hands to be "strong." Next we shall read--

Zech. 8:20-22 -- "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities: and the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the Lord, and to seek the Lord of hosts: I will go also. Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord."

Since we know that no nation aside from the Jewish nation in Zechariah's day went to seek the Lord and to pray before Him in Jerusalem, there is no alternative but again to admit that the promises of Zechariah 8 belong to the people in the time of the final harvests, in the gathering time.

Having completed our analysis of the time this chapter meets its fulfillment, we can, I am sure, now study the prophecy itself with much greater interest than we could have otherwise. Let us begin with --

Zech. 8:1-3 -- "Again the word of the Lord of hosts came to me, saying, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury. Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain."

Yes, wonderful things are spoken of Zion and Jerusalem. At one time the Lord forsook the city and scattered the people. But at the time these scriptures are being revealed, He is to return, to gather His elect, and to bring them to Zion and Jerusalem. When this great work shall have been accomplished Jerusalem will then be called "a city of Truth,...the holy mountain" -- a people well versed in God's whole Truth and without a sinner in their midst.

This great wonder evidently takes place during the Judgment of the Living, the righteous are taken there while the wicked are being bound in bundles as it were for to be destroyed. And while the Lord dwells in Zion, His Truth shall then emanate from Zion and Jerusalem.

Then it is that "many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord." Now is our greatest chance to work and pray "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven."

Zech. 8:4, 5 -- "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age. And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof."

Jerusalem shall be a city of joy, too. There shall be no fear or accident; even the children shall safely play in the streets. There shall be no "long faces," and no worried looks. So shall it be for both young and old.

Zech. 8:6 -- "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If it be marvelous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvelous in Mine eyes? saith the Lord of hosts."

Just because the fulfillment of this prophecy might seem too marvelous and impossible, must it necessarily seem impossible to the Lord, also? -- Indeed not.

Zech. 8:7, 8 -- "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Behold, I will save My people from the east country, and from the west country; and I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, in Truth and in righteousness."

Zechariah predicts the gathering of the saints out of all nations into God's purified and Truth-filled church, the Kingdom, just as the parable of the harvest teaches, only the wheat is to be put into the barn, church. There is to be no mixed company of saints and sinners in the "holy mountain of the Lord."

Zech. 8:9 -- "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Let your hands be strong, ye that hear in these days these words by the mouth of the prophets, which were in the day that the foundation of the house of the Lord of hosts was laid, that the temple might be built."

God here counsels us to let our hands be strong, and stable.We, too, should hear the words of the prophets and though we be not building the temple which they were building, yet that is the only way that our work can prosper. We cannot afford to close our ears to what the prophets say, or to sit down in an unconcerned attitude.

Zech. 8:10-12 -- "For before these days there was no hire for man, nor any hire for beast; neither was there any peace to him that went out or came in because of the affliction: for I set all men every one against his neighbour.

But now I will not be unto the residue of this people as in the former days, saith the Lord of hosts. For the seed shall be prosperous; the vine shall give her fruit, and the ground shall give her increase, and the heavens shall give their dew; and I will cause the remnant of this people to possess all these things."

How thankful and glad we ought to be that the days of our affliction are almost at the end, that now if we hear His prophets, and brace ourselves for the work, the Lord assures us of peace and prosperity. This may soon be ours if we but steadfastly cling to the Truth, and thus to the Lord. (Timely Greetings, vol. 1, no.16, p.22-26)

No -- forget about a peaceful, prosperous kingdom over in Palestine prior to Christ's coming.

2 Thess. 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


Part of the last great deception will be this idea of a righteous earthly kingdom over there in Palestine --

As the prophet Isaiah warned:






Basic English grammar confirms that VERSES 3-5 are all in the "WE/US" voice showing it is the people speaking.

In verse 6 we hear how God responds -- why does God forsake these people, when it SOUNDS like they are doing something good?



It is not a prophecy of what shall be, but of what "many people" will do, and say.

This prophecy, of what the people would say, is exactly fulfilled before our eyes. It is the very language of "many people" in these days; which shows that we are "in the last days." The prophecy of a "temporal kingdom," of a spiritual, peaceful and universal reign of the church on earth, previous to the personal appearing of Christ in the clouds of heaven, exactly agrees with the popular ideas of prophecy at this time.

Let us now inquire, Did the many people speak the truth? or, did they prophesy out of their own hearts?

I think the latter. And to this state of an exalted church, and to what they would say about peace and security, we can compare to Paul who clearly refers in 1Thess.v,3. "When they shall say peace and safety; [the very thing that Isaiah and Micah tells us the "many people" will "say" in the "last days;] then sudden destruction cometh upon them, and they shall not escape."

An awful warning this, to those who are saying nations are going to beat their swords into plow-shares, and their spears into pruning hooks, and not lift up sword against each other any more, but all are to sit under their own vine - having none to molest them or make them afraid.

So how are we to understand Zechariah eight?

1. These promises were primarily meant for the returned captives from Babylon who were then rebuilding Jerusalem and the areas around the city..
God was promising them wonderful things -- telling them that His favor had returned to their city.

2. The goal was for the returned Israelites to grow mightily in spiritual prosperity and to prepare the world for Christ's first coming -- His first coming indeed was to Bethlehem and Jerusalem and the area over there in Palestine.

3. The promises of their city being a light to the world and growing in spiritual prosperity were CONDITIONAL ON OBEDIENCE.
(A condition that they failed, thus the literal fulfilment of the prophecy did not happen -- but God's purposes will be fulfilled in another way)

4. They are being fulfilled TODAY (not in literal Jerusalem) but by the church proclaiming the gospel to the world and urging people to prepare for Christ's second coming.

Ded-No -- forget about a peaceful, prosperous kingdom over in Palestine prior to Christ's coming.

Let us see whether we should believe un-inspired words or the soon to happen GREAT LIVING WORD--

"But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore, say to the house of Israel: This is what the Lord GOD says: It is not for your sake that I will act, house of Israel, but for My holy name, which you profaned among the nations where you went.

And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.(Ezekiel 36:21-35)

These things have NEVER happened since they were predicted by Ezekiel. Will God not do what He said He will do?

Those who say "Oh no, stay away from this idea that God will restore His people back to the Holy Land" will get what they believe- no entrance to His beginning phase of the kingdom, oh what a disaster to come upon them!

True.

False.
Sorry, dedication, but this is faulty exegesis based on a KJV mis-translation of the original text. The Hebrew does not support a "Therefore" inserted into verse 6. A far more accurate reading is found in the NRS, LB, or NIV. As those translations point out, God forsakes the people because they have taken on the ways of the idol worshipers, not because they are doing something good.

This reading fails on two points:
1. The original text does not have, or support, "therefore." Check an inter-linear. Nor does it have a Strongs number.
2. "Therefore" indicates "because of what I just said, or was just stated" and "because" indicates "for the following reason." Since the before and after ideas do not match, one of the words is incorrect.

Conclusion: "Therefore" should not be in the text. The thought break should more accurately be placed between verse 4 and 5.

Therefore, your dissertation which follows is based on a flawed understanding of Scripture.

So JAK, I guess, since you are not an SDA, you have probably accepted the popular concept (which seems to be the prevailing interpretation in the Christian world) that there will be a temporal kingdom in Palestine.

However --
What the people say in Isaiah 2:2-5 still does not meet with the approval of God. Verse 5 clearly tells us God "forsakes, cast off or away, rejects, abandons, quits, cast down, lets fall", these people.

And true -- their worship is "idol" worship but remember people have idols that aren't necessarily images, idols is anything that is more important in our lives than our relationship with God.

Setting up some kind of kingdom in Palestine and going there isn't going change that.

The overwhelming acceptance of such a kingdom theory in our time, simply shows we are IN THE LAST DAYS. -- It is a physical counterfeit of the true. True worship, worships God in spirit and in truth, and it's not based on any geographic location. (See John 4:20-24)

Ezekiel 36 is one of my favorite chapters as it describes the NEW BIRTH experience.

It is NOW that God will sprinkle clean water upon us, and make us clean from all our filthiness, and from all our idols, He will cleanse us. A new heart also will He give us, and a new spirit will He put within us: and He will take away the stony heart out of our flesh, and He will give us an heart of flesh -- if we just come to Him with genuine faith and surrender.


The NEW BIRTH experience changes our citizenship from this world to being citizens of God's New Jerusalem.

And Jesus will gather his people from all nations(all who through the power of the Holy Spirit, experienced the new birth) at the second coming, and they will inherit the earth after the 1000 years, when the earth that was left desolate will blossom in beauty.
(See John 3, Matt. 24:31, John 14:1-3, Rev. 21-22)

Rev. 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


“Lord lift me up, and I shall stand
By faith on heaven’s tableland
A higher plane than I have found
Lord plant my feet on higher ground.



I want to live above the world,
though satan’s darts at me are hurled,
For faith has caught the joyful sound
The song of saints on higher ground.

My home's in heaven, this world is not my home,
My crowning hope is to meet Jesus in the air at the second coming and live with Him --first in heaven for 1000 years, then upon the earth made new for eternity.

You know absolutely nothing about what I am, yet read into my profile your own interpretation.
Now you build a theory about my beliefs based on the (unconfirmed) supposition above. Do you also do your theology in the same manner?

???
Seriously, what translation are you using? Verse 5 does not contain even ONE of the words in your quote.

So what I'm seeing is a "theology" system based on misreading Scripture, making suppositions, then building theories on the suppositions based on misread Scripture....
As far as I am concerned you have seriously jeopardized any credibility you may have had.

And not a word about the previous post regarding faulty exegesis based on the faulty KJV...

I'd say I'm shocked, but I'm not, for it is just because of this kind of pathetic "explanations" that I list my denominational leanings as I do.

No, I don't know your official standing with the church, I can only go by what you have shared, which suggests you are not a Seventh-day Adventist, but still chose to fellowship with them.
If I am wrong please correct me.
You didn't correct me, only said you had "leanings" -- does that mean the statement was correct?


When I say you have probably accepted the popular concept, instead of correcting that, you simply answer with ad hominine remarks, so is the statement correct?

I would have been far happier if you would have simply explained your belief on the matter,
then at least we could communicate.





However --
What the people say in Isaiah 2:2-5 still does not meet with the approval of God. Verse 5 (actually verse 6) does clearly tell us God "forsakes, cast off or away, rejects, abandons, quits, cast down, lets fall", these people.

I was using the concordance looking up the first words in Isaiah 2:6

Yes, it is verse 6, not verse 5, that was a typo.


"natash" #05203 which means "forsakes, cast off or away, rejects, abandons, quits, cast down, lets fall",

the second word

"'am" means people


The one word, therefore, does not change the reality that God is not happy with them in verse 6, which follows what the people say in those verses of Isaiah 2:3-6

The people say "let us go....."

and God responds in a negative manner, and yes, it's because they think going to Jerusalem will solve their problems, but they still have their idols, pride and desire for material wealth.

In the last days, going to Jerusalem is not the answer to the sin problem.




I don't see a thought break between verse 4 and 5,
Verse 5 simple restates the people saying "let us" agreeing with verse 3 thus making verses 3-5 the complete sayings of the people.

2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD....
2:5 let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Ded- So JAK, I guess, since you are not an SDA, you have probably accepted the popular concept (which seems to be the prevailing interpretation in the Christian world) that there will be a temporal kingdom in Palestine.

Notice time and again Dedication fails a most basic test as she attempts to prove God's word wrong.( See her failed ideas under "fear of God"-- thread--"The Whole Law and the Sabbath)

The LIVING WORD SAYS --

"But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore, say to the house of Israel: This is what the Lord GOD says: It is not for your sake that I will act, house of Israel, but for My holy name, which you profaned among the nations where you went.

And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.(Ezekiel 36:21-35)

Sure, it is a "favorite" of hers, but she cannot prove it wrong. Yes, she can use her private interpretations again, but we truth seekers, can see this smoke screeen.