Arnold, are Christians perverse and depraved?

Is everything Jesus empowers them to do stained with sin and selfishness?

The righteousness of Christ, which will be imputed to the believing soul, will be the title by which his entrance into heaven will be assured. Through the influence of the Spirit of God, the believer is transformed in character; his taste is refined, his judgment is sanctified, and he becomes complete in Christ. The love that was manifested toward him in the death of Christ, awakens a response of thankful love, and in answer to sincere prayer, the believer is brought from grace to grace, from glory to glory, until by beholding Christ, he is changed into the same image. – {YI December 6, 1894 Par. 4}

It is a process.

The wind is heard among the branches of the trees, rustling the leaves and flowers; yet it is invisible, and no man knows whence it comes or whither it goes. So with the work of the Holy Spirit upon the heart. It can no more be explained than can the movements of the wind. A person may not be able to tell the exact time or place, or to trace all the circumstances in the process of conversion; but this does not prove him to be unconverted. By an agency as unseen as the wind, Christ is constantly working upon the heart. Little by little, perhaps unconsciously to the receiver, impressions are made that tend to draw the soul to Christ. These may be received through meditating upon Him, through reading the Scriptures, or through hearing the word from the living preacher. Suddenly, as the Spirit comes with more direct appeal, the soul gladly surrenders itself to Jesus. By many this is called sudden conversion; but it is the result of long wooing by the Spirit of God,--a patient, protracted process. {DA 172.3}

John says, "The light"--Christ--"shineth in darkness," that is, in the world, "and the darkness comprehended it not. . . . But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." The reason why the unbelieving world are not saved is that they do not choose to be enlightened. The old nature, born of blood and the will of the flesh, cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The old ways, the hereditary tendencies, the former habits, must be given up; for grace is not inherited. The new birth consists in having new motives, new tastes, new tendencies. Those who are begotten unto a new life by the Holy Spirit, have become partakers of the divine nature, and in all their habits and practices, they will give evidence of their relationship to Christ. When men who claim to be Christians retain all their natural defects of character and disposition, in what does their position differ from that of the worldling? They do not appreciate the truth as a sanctifier, a refiner. They have not been born again. {RH, April 12, 1892 par. 9}

When Christ would define the advancement possible for us, He said, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." This advancement is not gained without effort. The Christian life is a battle and a march. But the victory to be gained is not won by human power. The field of conflict is the domain of the heart. The battle which we have to fight--the greatest battle that was ever fought by man--is the surrender of self to the will of God, the yielding of the heart to the sovereignty of love. The old nature, born of blood and of the will of the flesh, can not inherit the kingdom of God. The hereditary tendencies, the formed habits, must be given up. {ST, May 18, 1904 par. 7}

He who determines to enter the spiritual kingdom will find that all the powers and passions of an unregenerate nature, backed by the forces of the kingdom of darkness, are arrayed against him. Selfishness and pride will make a stand against anything that would show them to be sinful. We can not, of ourselves, conquer the evil desires and habits that struggle for the mastery. We can not overcome the mighty foe who holds us in his thrall. God alone can give us the victory. He desires us to have the mastery over ourselves, our own will and ways. But He can not work in us without our consent and co-operation. The divine Spirit works through the faculties and powers given to man. Our energies are required to co-operate with God. {ST, May 18, 1904 par. 8}

The victory is not won without much earnest prayer, without the humbling of self at every step. Our will is not to be forced into co-operation with divine agencies, but it must be voluntarily submitted. Were it possible to force upon you with a hundredfold greater intensity the influence of the Spirit of God, it would not make you a Christian, a fit subject for heaven. The stronghold of Satan-would not be broken. The will must be placed on the side of God's will. You are not able, of yourself, to bring your purposes and desires and inclinations into submission to the will of God; but if you are "willing to be made willing," God will accomplish the work for you, even "casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ." Then you will "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure." {ST, May 18, 1904 par. 9}

Arnold, when believers complete the "process" - what is the state and status of their good words and good works (the fruit of abiding in Jesus)? You wrote, "I believe true believers . . . are dirty channels" and "what passes through dirty channels is dirty." "Sin-stained, too". Is this true even after they complete the "process"?

If this is your relgion, Arnold, then we are brothers in Christ!

A: The righteousness of Christ, which will be imputed to the believing soul, will be the title by which his entrance into heaven will be assured. Through the influence of the Spirit of God, the believer is transformed in character; his taste is refined, his judgment is sanctified, and he becomes complete in Christ. The love that was manifested toward him in the death of Christ, awakens a response of thankful love, and in answer to sincere prayer, the believer is brought from grace to grace, from glory to glory, until by beholding Christ, he is changed into the same image. – {YI December 6, 1894 Par. 4} It is a process.

M: Arnold, when believers complete the "process" - what is the state and status of their good words and good works (the fruit of abiding in Jesus)? You wrote, "I believe true believers . . . are dirty channels" and "what passes through dirty channels is dirty." "Sin-stained, too". Is this true even after they complete the "process"? . . . She wrote, Then you will "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure." Again, what is the state and status of the good words and works God works out in and through true believers who have completed the "process"? Dirty and sin-stained?

A: That is for another thread. The salient questions here are: While one is in the process of sanctification - still dirty - is he considered a true believer? If true believers are dirty, are they choosing to be dirty, or is it something they cannot fully control? When one is in the process of salvation, does God reveal every problem all at once, or does He give it in manageable chunks?

One ray of the glory of God, one gleam of the purity of Christ, penetrating the soul, makes every spot of defilement painfully distinct, and lays bare the deformity and defects of the human character. It makes apparent the unhallowed desires, the infidelity of the heart, the impurity of the lips. The sinner's acts of disloyalty in making void the law of God, are exposed to his sight, and his spirit is stricken and afflicted under the searching influence of the Spirit of God. He loathes himself as he views the pure, spotless character of Christ. {SC 29.1}

M: Is everything Jesus empowers them to do stained with sin and selfishness?

A) No. But what passes through dirty channels is dirty.

1) No. What do you mean by No?

2) Dirty? What do you mean by Dirty?