HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
Andrew, Trainor, ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield
1325 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,232
Posts196,211
Members1,325
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
asygo 29
Rick H 24
kland 16
November
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Member Spotlight
asygo
asygo
California, USA
Posts: 5,636
Joined: February 2006
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
9 registered members (TheophilusOne, dedication, daylily, Daryl, Karen Y, 4 invisible), 2,658 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Ancient Bible Scholars Weigh in on the Meaning of the Word “Head” #175992
08/11/15 10:38 PM
08/11/15 10:38 PM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Posted on August 11, 2015 by Greg Hahn

Hierarchical complementarianism rests on two pillars, which they hammer relentlessly. The first pillar is that the gender hierarchy they espouse is part of God’s good design and His original intent in creation. Therefore we should not merely accept it, they say, but in fact, “we should be rejoicing” over this awesome aspect of creation.  As I showed in an earlier post, their scriptural support for that claim is worse than inadequate.   But when a doctrinal position that you really want to be true rests on only two points, you can’t afford to surrender one of them easily. And so they continue to beat the dead horse and pretend they have a viable scriptural argument.

Their second, and only remaining foundational point is that man is the “head” of woman, (as it clearly says in 1 Corinthians 11:3), and the husband is the “head” of the wife, (as it explicitly states in Ephesians 5:23)….

And so there you have it, ladies and gents! Close your Bibles please, we’re done for the day. Now on to the potluck!–Complementarian huckster

Eh…..not so fast, guys. This brother would like to take a closer at that. Tell me, what, exactly does “head” mean in those two passages?

Of course they bristle at that question, partly because “Man is the head of the woman” is their seven-word mantra which tends to be the “go-to” response to get them out of any theological jam relating to gender. Women preachers? “Man is the head of the woman.” Women elders? “Man is the head of the woman.” Should they serve communion? “Man is the head of the woman.” Equality in the home? “Man is the head of the woman.”

So don’t question the mantra, alright? Because everybody knows what “head” means!  Why…. it’s as plain as the nose on your face! The head of General Motors is the boss, right? He’s the one in charge, the one that calls the shots, the big kahuna!

Well, sure, that’s definitely true in English, in which the word “head” literally means the body part above your neck, and metaphorically can also mean leader/ruler/boss. But the New Testament wasn’t written in English- it was written in Greek. And we always have to keep the original language in mind when we read the Bible.

The big question is- does kephalé 1– the New Testament Greek word that literally means ‘head’- the body part above the neck- also metaphorically refer to leader/ruler/boss? In other words, if someone referred to the president of  GM as the kephalé of General Motors, would that make sense to the Greek speakers of the first century?  (Ignoring the fact that cars didn’t exist back then.)

Wayne Grudem of the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood argues emphatically,  ‘YES- this word refers to authority, just like our English word!’ And many other scholars have strongly replied, ‘NO- it does NOT mean the same as our English word, and does NOT refer to leader/ruler/boss. Ever!’ And this debate between a bunch of very smart people has been going back and forth now for more than 30 years.

I won’t presume to place myself on the level of these Biblical scholars. I must admit that reading their exchanges can become confusing and wearisome. It can be difficult at times to know who has the better argument. Can’t it?

Hey, you know what would be great? It would be great if we could have the testimony of some ancient Greek scholars from around the time of Christ, to get their input on the meaning of kephalé, and whether they thought  the word carried an implication of leadership/ rulership/ or authority. That, my friends, would be awesome. Then we’d know for sure, wouldn’t we?

Well guess what? We have that! As crazy as it may sound,  The Lord, in His providence, has given us practically that very thing- a group of 70 linguists from right around the time of Christ who tackled this very question!

Their expert opinion on the meaning of kephalé is recorded for us in the Septuagint, a translation of the Old Tes...r or more words[/color][/u] to cover all the meanings of our word “trunk” because none of the Spanish words is a perfect match for our English word.

Finding the perfect word to use for a translation is often a challenge and frequently isn’t possible. When the perfect word is available- an exact match that carries the full range of meaning from one language to the next- a good translator will jump at the chance to use it. To do otherwise would be to strip the text of depth and meaning.

Of the 595 times ‘rosh’ occurs in the Old Testament, most of the time it refers to the physical body part, and our English Bibles correctly use the word “head”. At other times the Hebrew word ‘rosh’ refers to a leader or authority. This occurs 180 times in all, or about 30% of the time. And again, our Bibles normally use the word “head” in those cases since our English word, like the Hebrew word, carries both meanings. It is, in fact, the perfect translation of ‘rosh’ in this case.

But that’s Hebrew and English. The question at hand is Greek, and what Paul meant by the Greek word for head, kephalé. How did our 70 ancient Greek and Hebrew scholars translate ‘rosh’ into Greek when they had the chance? Did they believe ‘kephale’ was the perfect translation of ‘rosh’ when it referred to authority? No, they did not.

When we examine the Septuagint, we find that whenever rosh referred to a literal head, such as in Genesis 3:15, “You shall bruise his head,”- they used the standard Greek word for head, kephalé. However, in the 180 times that the Old Testament uses the word “rosh” to mean leader or ruler or boss, they avoided kephalé like the plague!2  

The Septuagint translators weren’t ones to paraphrase. In fact, some have complained they followed the Hebrew text too literally.3  Yet when ‘rosh’ meant head as a leader, they almost always switched to a different word, one that did mean leader, but did not carry the meaning of ‘head’- the body part.

Moreover, the handful of times that the Septuagint translators did use kephalé to imply authority are the first times in recorded history that the word  was used that way. And in almost every instance it was either a case that they were forced to use it by a tough translation choice, such as a head/ tail metaphor, or it is questionable as to whether authority was really implied at all.

Let’s think about that.

If kephalé carries the meaning “leader” in addition to the literal meaning “head”, then it is the perfect translation of ‘rosh’ in every sense it is used. And it would mean the Septuagint translators intentionally avoided using the perfect translation in favor of another word that only carried half the meaning! And not just once or twice or a dozen times, but  one hundred and seventy-one times.

This is a powerful indication that these 70 ancient linguists did not feel comfortable with using kephalé to express that meaning. If kephalé could mean authority to these guys, they wouldn’t have switched to another word that didn’t also mean “head”. It makes no sense that they would have done that.

So when we read “head” in the New Testament where the underlying word is kephalé, be it First Corinthians 11:3,  Ephesians 1:22, 4:15, 5:23, or Colossians 1:18, 2:10, 2:19, or anyplace else- in all of them we need to take the idea of authority off the table as a possible meaning. 4 The word simply did not mean that to Greek speaking people of Paul’s day.

So the second, and only remaining pillar of complementarianism, a hierarchical interpretation of the word head, only works if the word is taken out of its historical and linguistic context. Just like their allegations of male rule as part of God’s good creation, this pillar of complementarianism also falls completely flat when the evidence is examined.

So when you hear that seven-word mantra in conversation, “man is the head of the woman”, said with the intent to limit a woman’s ministry opportunities or diminish her authority in the home, they are misusing Scripture.  You can come back with a seven-word mantra of your own:

“Head in Greek did not mean authority!” 5
“Head in Greek did not mean leader!”
6


The 70 translators of the Septuagint tell us so.

====================================================================================

References

1. Kephalé is pronounced keffa-LAY

2. The Septuagint translators use a different word approximately 171 times out of 180, or 95% of the time.  (Some people count 6 exceptions, some count 9, and some count 11. In any case, it’s a small number.) Good discussion on these exceptions are in articles by Michael W. Kruse, part 1 is 

here and part 2 is here.

3. Philip Payne- Man and Woman, One in Christ, footnotes 15-16 quoting Peter Walters: The Text of the Septuagint, and F.C. Conybear/ St George Stock: Grammar of Septuagint Greek.

4. In Ephesians 1:22 and Colossians 2:10 the idea of lordship/rulership seems an obvious fit. But we can’t give kephalé a meaning it didn’t have merely because it fits the sentence and our assumptions. The most prominent lexicon of ancient Greek is the Liddell Scott. In its entry it lists 25 metaphorical uses of the word kephalé, and none of them refers to authority. What does fit Ephesians 1:22 and Colossians 2:10 is the meaning “top” or “crown”. (See Payne, page 128)

5. In Matthew 10:25, 24:43, and Luke 12:39, 13:25, and 14:21, the expression “head of the house” does not use the Greek word for head, kephalé. Instead it uses a different word, oikodespótes.

6. Some translations have “head of the synagogue” in Matthew 9:18 and Luke 8:41. The Bible here does not use the Greek word for head, kephalé. Instead it uses a different word, archon.



Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Ancient Bible Scholars Weigh in on the Meaning of the Word “Head” [Re: APL] #175993
08/11/15 11:44 PM
08/11/15 11:44 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
That's an awful lot of argument to try to deny a significant message from God to us via the Bible. It's sad that people would go to such lengths to undermine God's truths and to do despite to His Word.

BlueLetterBible (online) has the following definition for the Greek word (Strong's 2776) for "head" addressed in the above article:

Quote:
the head, both of men and often of animals. Since the loss of the head destroys life, this word is used in the phrases relating to capital and extreme punishment.

metaph. anything supreme, chief, prominent

of persons, master lord: of a husband in relation to his wife

of Christ: the Lord of the husband and of the Church

of things: the corner stone


That should really not surprise us. The Bible is replete with symbols and metaphors, and to say it can only be literal in this instance is to show one's obvious prejudice in favor of a clearly modern rebellion on this point of truth.

But if one does not choose to accept a standard Greek lexicon's definition for the word, and wishes something more scholarly, consider that of Spiros Zodhiates, Th.D., widely acknowledged as a scholar in Greek. Here, from his book "The Complete Word Study New Testament," are his comments on this word.

Originally Posted By: Spiros Zodhiates
2776. Kephalé; the head (Matt. 6:17; 8:20; 10:30); the head as the top (Matt. 21:42; Luke 20:17); the head as superior (Eph. 5:23); as the husband of the wife (1 Cor. 11:3); Christ as the head of the Church (Eph. 4:15, 16; Col. 2:19), and of all principality and power (Col. 2:10, cf. Eph. 1:22); so God the Father is designated as the head of Christ in His manfestation as man, or as the divinity is superior to the humanity (1 Cor. 11:3).


And really, all one need do is look at those Bible texts referenced by Spiros for oneself. A child could understand them. Why some self-aggrandized "scholar" chooses to blind himself to the truth is beyond me. Consider Matthew 21:42, Mark 12:10, Luke 20:17, and Acts 4:11. Is Jesus NOT accepted by this so-called "scholar" as an authority and a leader? Must Jesus' headship be only that of a literal "head"? How ridiculous, disrespectful, and irreverent!

Consider too passages such as John 20:12. Where in that verse is the "head"? (Hint: The passage does not speak of a literal pate.)

I would hate to see what these supposed scholars do with a text like Romans 12:20 in which we are admonished to heap coals of fire on someone's head. If the head is not figurative, I don't suppose those coals of fire would be either. And then there is 1 Corinthians 11:3. Christ is certainly not my literal head. Then what is He if not my authority and leader?

What a shame for people to try so hard to remove Christ's authority from off their shoulders and replace His headship for a feminine one of their own devising!

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Ancient Bible Scholars Weigh in on the Meaning of the Word “Head” [Re: APL] #175994
08/12/15 01:44 AM
08/12/15 01:44 AM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: green
What a shame for people to try so hard to remove Christ's authority from off their shoulders and replace His headship for a feminine one of their own devising!
Hard to see Christ, the only head of the church, being removed by any person. It is also hard to give up preconceived ideas.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Ancient Bible Scholars Weigh in on the Meaning of the Word “Head” [Re: APL] #175995
08/12/15 03:40 AM
08/12/15 03:40 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Blessings APL,

A long intellectual argument that is totally unBiblical! Again, you can't and don't back up your assertions with the Bible.

Re: Ancient Bible Scholars Weigh in on the Meaning of the Word “Head” [Re: Alchemy] #175997
08/12/15 04:48 AM
08/12/15 04:48 AM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Blessings APL,

A long intellectual argument that is totally unBiblical! Again, you can't and don't back up your assertions with the Bible.
Perhaps you did not READ the article? And, I still have some Bible questions for you still waiting for you. No answers? Why?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Ancient Bible Scholars Weigh in on the Meaning of the Word “Head” [Re: APL] #176001
08/12/15 09:36 AM
08/12/15 09:36 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Blessings APL,

A long intellectual argument that is totally unBiblical! Again, you can't and don't back up your assertions with the Bible.
Perhaps you did not READ the article? And, I still have some Bible questions for you still waiting for you. No answers? Why?


I've answered all of them already.

Re: Ancient Bible Scholars Weigh in on the Meaning of the Word “Head” [Re: APL] #176002
08/12/15 09:38 AM
08/12/15 09:38 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: green
What a shame for people to try so hard to remove Christ's authority from off their shoulders and replace His headship for a feminine one of their own devising!
Hard to see Christ, the only head of the church, being removed by any person. It is also hard to give up preconceived ideas.


Blessings APL,

It is the WOPE supporters that believe "Headship" is pagan and heretical! Now you say there is a head of the church! Which is it APL?!?

Re: Ancient Bible Scholars Weigh in on the Meaning of the Word “Head” [Re: Alchemy] #176003
08/12/15 01:20 PM
08/12/15 01:20 PM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: green
What a shame for people to try so hard to remove Christ's authority from off their shoulders and replace His headship for a feminine one of their own devising!
Hard to see Christ, the only head of the church, being removed by any person. It is also hard to give up preconceived ideas.


Blessings APL,

It is the WOPE supporters that believe "Headship" is pagan and heretical! Now you say there is a head of the church! Which is it APL?!?


Let it be seen that Christ, not the minister, is the head of the church. {ST, January 27, 1890 par. 9}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
No mail in Canada?
by Rick H. 11/22/24 06:45 PM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 11/21/24 11:03 AM
Fourth quarter, 2024, The Gospel of John
by asygo. 11/20/24 02:31 AM
The 2024 Election, the Hegelian Dialectic
by ProdigalOne. 11/15/24 08:26 PM
"The Lord's Day" and Ignatius
by dedication. 11/15/24 02:19 AM
The Doctrine of the Nicolaitans
by dedication. 11/14/24 04:00 PM
Will Trump be able to lead..
by dedication. 11/13/24 07:13 PM
Is Lying Ever Permitted?
by kland. 11/13/24 05:04 PM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 11/13/24 04:06 PM
Profiles Of Jesus In Zecharia
by dedication. 11/13/24 02:23 AM
Good and Evil of Higher Critical Bible Study
by dedication. 11/12/24 07:31 PM
The Great White Throne
by dedication. 11/12/24 06:39 PM
A god whom his fathers knew not..
by TruthinTypes. 11/05/24 12:19 AM
Understanding the Battle of Armageddon
by Rick H. 10/25/24 07:25 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
Dr Ben Carson: Church and State
by Rick H. 11/22/24 07:12 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by dedication. 11/22/24 04:02 PM
Will Trump Pass The Sunday Law?
by dedication. 11/22/24 12:51 PM
Understanding the 1,260-year Prophecy
by dedication. 11/22/24 12:35 PM
Private Schools
by Rick H. 11/22/24 07:54 AM
The Church is Suing the State of Maryland
by Rick H. 11/16/24 04:43 PM
Has the Catholic Church Changed?
by TheophilusOne. 11/16/24 08:53 AM
Dr Conrad Vine Banned
by Rick H. 11/15/24 06:11 AM
Understanding the 1290 & 1335 of Daniel 12?
by dedication. 11/05/24 03:16 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1