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Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ [Re: Green Cochoa] #179030
01/13/16 05:43 AM
01/13/16 05:43 AM
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Alchemy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Here's what you need to answer, Alchemy:

Will you or anyone else know when probation has closed?

It seems we are told in the Bible that:

1) No man will know;
2) The angels of God will not know;
3) Even Jesus may not know (depends on interpretation of Mark 13:32);

AND

4) Mrs. White tells us Satan himself can only "infer" that it has closed.

Interestingly, Satan infers this because God's people are protected by the holy angels. So do the holy angels at that point know as well? If so, how can the Bible be correct that they will not know?

You see, the real question to grapple with here, and where you and I may differ, is whether or not probation's close is an event at a single moment in time, or if it closes at different times for different people and/or groups of people. I believe the latter. I believe probation may have closed for God's people at the time of Jacob's trouble. However, the world still has a chance. The plagues are not yet. Probation for the world still continues for a time, while the saints are persecuted and some martyred. No saint will lose his or her life after probation has closed for everyone. As long as persecution of the saints means some of them are put to death, we can be assured that probation has not closed for the world. Their deaths will inspire some to accept God in the final moments of earth's history.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
(bold emphasis mine)

Your statement about the angels knowing when the Bible says they won't know is ridiculous! Where does the Bible say the angels won't know when the close of probation is? What are you talking about?

The Bible says the angels won't know when the Second Coming of Jesus is! But, it doesn't mention the close of probation. The close of probation and the Second Coming of Jesus are two totally different events!

As far as your question to grapple with; At least there was some substance to address. But, all that junk earlier was terrible.

So now, once again, I will defer to the chapter "The Time of Trouble" in the Great Controversy. Ellen White describes the close of probation as for the entire planet earth. No more mercy for fallen mankind.

Here is a quote;

"When the third angel’s message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth. The people of God have accomplished their work. They have received “the latter rain,” “the refreshing from the presence of the Lord,” and they are prepared for the trying hour before them. Angels are hastening to and fro in heaven. An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received “the seal of the living God.”" {GC 613.2}

I want to finish this point, Green. You see, it doesn't matter if probation closes for some earlier than others. When I am speaking of the close of probation in this thread, it is for all the inhabitants of the earth. Just like Sister White is in chapter 39 of the Great Controversy.

So no! No one in the world has a chance at salvation during the Time of Jacob's Trouble. All decisions are final before this time, being the close of probation.

You may want to study up on the little time of trouble, Green.

There isn't any way around this, Green. Satan's personation of Christ is after the close of probation. Period.

Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ [Re: dedication] #179031
01/13/16 06:29 AM
01/13/16 06:29 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Alchemy,

Thank you for your questions. The Bible tells us that the angels won't know in at least two places: Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32. I would like you to tell me why you feel those address the second coming, which is not mentioned in either verse, instead of the close of probation.

Consider the context: Matthew 24 goes on to compare the "day" and "hour" that Jesus is addressing to the "day" when Noah entered the ark. What day did that represent? When the door of the ark shut, did that represent the close of probation or the second coming?

Your answer to that last question should tell you what is being addressed in verse 36.

God bless,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ [Re: Green Cochoa] #179032
01/13/16 07:52 AM
01/13/16 07:52 AM
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Alchemy  Offline
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Green.

The close of probation for all mankind. That is the close of probation being talked about.

I will look into your concept of the close of probation with the angels as I have never thought of it that way before.

Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ [Re: Alchemy] #179033
01/13/16 08:00 AM
01/13/16 08:00 AM
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Alchemy  Offline
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Green. I just read Matthew 24:36-37. The Bible clearly states "so shall the coming of the son of man be."

Green. The Bible states the coming of the son of man. (bold emphasis mine)

If you read down to verse 39, the Bible explains how the days of Noah relate to "the coming of the son of man". These verses are talking about the Second Coming of Christ, not the close of probation.

Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ [Re: dedication] #179034
01/13/16 08:39 AM
01/13/16 08:39 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Alchemy,

You have made some good observations, but have still been influenced by the traditional Adventist bias about what those verses say. I would encourage you to, as Mrs. White says we should when we come to the Bible to understand its meaning, set your preconceptions aside for a moment and look at it one more time.

Here's the catch: There are TWO comings of Christ.

Christ comes in judgment, and in glory. The Bible itself refers to two manners of His coming: in one, He will come as a thief; whereas in the other, every eye will see Him. Thieves don't trumpet their arrival.

Jesus refers to BOTH comings in that passage in Matthew. Look again, and I believe you will notice this. First, there is the "day" that Noah enters the ark. That is really the most important one. It is the determiner of who will be saved or lost. When the flood came, the determination had already been made--seven days earlier in that story. When Jesus comes in glory, it is to hand out the rewards which have already been determined--in this case, we don't know how much earlier, for it came as a thief in the night.

Jesus goes on to focus more on the "thief" concept in the following verses. That is because of the two comings, the first is the more significant and the one for which we must be prepared.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ [Re: Green Cochoa] #179036
01/13/16 10:45 AM
01/13/16 10:45 AM
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Alchemy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Alchemy,

You have made some good observations, but have still been influenced by the traditional Adventist bias about what those verses say. I would encourage you to, as Mrs. White says we should when we come to the Bible to understand its meaning, set your preconceptions aside for a moment and look at it one more time.

Here's the catch: There are TWO comings of Christ.

Christ comes in judgment, and in glory. The Bible itself refers to two manners of His coming: in one, He will come as a thief; whereas in the other, every eye will see Him. Thieves don't trumpet their arrival.


Jesus refers to BOTH comings in that passage in Matthew. Look again, and I believe you will notice this. First, there is the "day" that Noah enters the ark. That is really the most important one. It is the determiner of who will be saved or lost. When the flood came, the determination had already been made--seven days earlier in that story. When Jesus comes in glory, it is to hand out the rewards which have already been determined--in this case, we don't know how much earlier, for it came as a thief in the night.

Jesus goes on to focus more on the "thief" concept in the following verses. That is because of the two comings, the first is the more significant and the one for which we must be prepared.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

(bold emphasis mine)

Interesting Green.

Still, we are talking about the close of probation for the entire world. No more mercy for the guilty inhabitants of the world.

But, I want you to set your preconceptions aside as well!! I believe this is why many are struggling with letting go of this "before the close of probation idea".

In all honesty, I didn't have any preconceptions when I started studying this late last year.

Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ [Re: dedication] #179037
01/13/16 11:52 AM
01/13/16 11:52 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Alchemy,

Again, I would point out that not even the angels will know when probation closes. If that is the case, how can we know if probation has closed for one group, one person, or for the whole world? We will not know until something happens that is said to be after probation's close--like the plagues falling, or the wicked being no longer able to kill the righteous. By then, it's too late. From the passages I've studied, immediately after Jesus ceases His ministration in the heavenly sanctuary, meaning probation will have closed for the last person, the plagues begin. Somewhere around this same time, the beast is unmasked, and all of the world sees through his deception. Therefore, I cannot see how at this same time (post-probationary time) Satan could then be able to deceive anyone by impersonating Christ.

There is no clear statement from Mrs. White that says Satan personates Christ after probation's close. You refer to the chapter in Great Controversy, and that is fine. However, you cannot prove that the entire chapter is presented in chronological order, nor can you prove the entirety of its contents speak of events in post-probationary time. In fact, a careful reader can find many references within that chapter to times preceding probation's close, such as when Mrs. White clearly speaks of "now". In fact, let's look carefully at that passage, beginning with that point, and you'll see that we cross the line again into post-probationary time several pages later. I've color-coded the table to show where the switch occurs.

Now, while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ. Not even by a thought could our Saviour be brought to yield to the power of temptation. Satan finds in human hearts some point where he can gain a foothold; some sinful desire is cherished, by means of which his temptations assert their power. But Christ declared of Himself: "The prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me." John 14:30. Satan could find nothing in the Son of God that would enable him to gain the victory. He had kept His Father's commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble. {GC 623.1}

It is in this life that we are to separate sin from us, through faith in the atoning blood of Christ. Our precious Saviour invites us to join ourselves to Him, to unite our weakness to His strength, our ignorance to His wisdom, our unworthiness to His merits. God's providence is the school in which we are to learn the meekness and lowliness of Jesus. The Lord is ever setting before us, not the way we would choose, which seems easier and pleasanter to us, but the true aims of life. It rests with us to co-operate with the agencies which Heaven employs in the work of conforming our characters to the divine model. None can neglect or defer this work but at the most fearful peril to their souls. {GC 623.2}

The apostle John in vision heard a loud voice in heaven exclaiming: "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." Revelation 12:12. Fearful are the scenes which call forth this exclamation from the heavenly voice. The wrath of Satan increases as his time grows short, and his work of deceit and destruction will reach its culmination in the time of trouble. {GC 623.3}

Fearful sights of a supernatural character will soon be revealed in the heavens, in token of the power of miracle-working demons. The spirits of devils will go forth to the kings of the earth and to the whole world, to fasten them in deception, and urge them on to unite with Satan in his last struggle against the government of heaven. By these agencies, rulers and subjects will be alike deceived. Persons will arise pretending to be Christ Himself, and claiming the title and worship which belong to the world's Redeemer. They will perform wonderful miracles of healing and will profess to have revelations from heaven contradicting the testimony of the Scriptures. {GC 624.1}

As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour's advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. Revelation 1:13-15. The glory that surrounds him is unsurpassed by anything that mortal eyes have yet beheld. The shout of triumph rings out upon the air: "Christ has come! Christ has come!" The people prostrate themselves in adoration before him, while he lifts up his hands and pronounces a blessing upon them, as Christ blessed His disciples when He was upon the earth. His voice is soft and subdued, yet full of melody. In gentle, compassionate tones he presents some of the same gracious, heavenly truths which the Saviour uttered; he heals the diseases of the people, and then, in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion. Like the Samaritans who were deceived by Simon Magus, the multitudes, from the least to the greatest, give heed to these sorceries, saying: This is "the great power of God." Acts 8:10. {GC 624.2}

But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image, the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God's unmingled wrath shall be poured out. {GC 625.1}

And, furthermore, Satan is not permitted to counterfeit the manner of Christ's advent. The Saviour has warned His people against deception upon this point, and has clearly foretold the manner of His second coming. "There shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. . . . Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth; behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:24-27, 31; 25:31; Revelation 1:7; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17. This coming there is no possibility of counterfeiting. It will be universally known--witnessed by the whole world. {GC 625.2}

Only those who have been diligent students of the Scriptures and who have received the love of the truth will be shielded from the powerful delusion that takes the world captive. By the Bible testimony these will detect the deceiver in his disguise. To all the testing time will come. By the sifting of temptation the genuine Christian will be revealed. Are the people of God now so firmly established upon His word that they would not yield to the evidence of their senses? Would they, in such a crisis, cling to the Bible and the Bible only? Satan will, if possible, prevent them from obtaining a preparation to stand in that day. He will so arrange affairs as to hedge up their way, entangle them with earthly treasures, cause them to carry a heavy, wearisome burden, that their hearts may be overcharged with the cares of this life and the day of trial may come upon them as a thief. {GC 625.3}

As the decree issued by the various rulers of Christendom against commandment keepers shall withdraw the protection of government and abandon them to those who desire their destruction, the people of God will flee from the cities and villages and associate together in companies, dwelling in the most desolate and solitary places. Many will find refuge in the strongholds of the mountains. Like the Christians of the Piedmont valleys, they will make the high places of the earth their sanctuaries and will thank God for "the munitions of rocks." Isaiah 33:16. But many of all nations and of all classes, high and low, rich and poor, black and white, will be cast into the most unjust and cruel bondage. The beloved of God pass weary days, bound in chains, shut in by prison bars, sentenced to be slain, some apparently left to die of starvation in dark and loathsome dungeons. No human ear is open to hear their moans; no human hand is ready to lend them help. {GC 626.1}

Will the Lord forget His people in this trying hour? Did He forget faithful Noah when judgments were visited upon the antediluvian world? Did He forget Lot when the fire came down from heaven to consume the cities of the plain? Did He forget Joseph surrounded by idolaters in Egypt? Did He forget Elijah when the oath of Jezebel threatened him with the fate of the prophets of Baal? Did He forget Jeremiah in the dark and dismal pit of his prison house? Did He forget the three worthies in the fiery furnace? or Daniel in the den of lions? {GC 626.2}

"Zion said, The Lord hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me. Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of My hands." Isaiah 49:14-16. The Lord of hosts has said: "He that toucheth you toucheth the apple of His eye." Zechariah 2:8. {GC 626.3}

Though enemies may thrust them into prison, yet dungeon walls cannot cut off the communication between their souls and Christ. One who sees their every weakness, who is acquainted with every trial, is above all earthly powers; and angels will come to them in lonely cells, bringing light and peace from heaven. The prison will be as a palace; for the rich in faith dwell there, and the gloomy walls will be lighted up with heavenly light as when Paul and Silas prayed and sang praises at midnight in the Philippian dungeon. {GC 627.1}

God's judgments will be visited upon those who are seeking to oppress and destroy His people. His long forbearance with the wicked emboldens men in transgression, but their punishment is nonetheless certain and terrible because it is long delayed. "The Lord shall rise up as in Mount Perazim, He shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His work, His strange work; and bring to pass His act, His strange act." Isaiah 28:21. To our merciful God the act of punishment is a strange act. "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked." Ezekiel 33:11. The Lord is "merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, . . . forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin." Yet He will "by no means clear the guilty." "The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked." Exodus 34:6, 7; Nahum 1:3. By terrible things in righteousness He will vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. The severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor may be judged by the Lord's reluctance to execute justice. The nation with which He bears long, and which He will not smite until it has filled up the measure of its iniquity in God's account, will finally drink the cup of wrath unmixed with mercy. {GC 627.2}

When Christ ceases His intercession in the sanctuary, the unmingled wrath threatened against those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark (Revelation 14:9, 10), will be poured out. The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God's people. Says the revelator, in describing those terrific scourges: "There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image." The sea "became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." And "the rivers and fountains of waters . . . became blood." Terrible as these inflictions are, God's justice stands fully vindicated. The angel of God declares: "Thou art righteous, O Lord, . . . because Thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and Thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy." Revelation 16:2-6. By condemning the people of God to death, they have as truly incurred the guilt of their blood as if it had been shed by their hands. In like manner Christ declared the Jews of His time guilty of all the blood of holy men which had been shed since the days of Abel; for they possessed the same spirit and were seeking to do the same work with these murderers of the prophets. {GC 627.3}


In approximately the center of the still-probationary time passage quoted above, Ellen White speaks clearly of a testing time to come to every individual. Obviously, there is no need to test anyone after probation has closed. This is something God does during our probationary time. As a part of this test, Satan is allowed to personate Christ--but God's people will not be deceived, because they are grounded in a knowledge of the scriptures and because God will not permit Satan to imitate the manner of His coming.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ [Re: Green Cochoa] #179042
01/14/16 12:07 AM
01/14/16 12:07 AM
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Alchemy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Alchemy,

Again, I would point out that not even the angels will know when probation closes. If that is the case, how can we know if probation has closed for one group, one person, or for the whole world? We will not know until something happens that is said to be after probation's close--like the plagues falling, or the wicked being no longer able to kill the righteous. By then, it's too late. From the passages I've studied, immediately after Jesus ceases His ministration in the heavenly sanctuary, meaning probation will have closed for the last person, the plagues begin. Somewhere around this same time, the beast is unmasked, and all of the world sees through his deception. Therefore, I cannot see how at this same time (post-probationary time) Satan could then be able to deceive anyone by impersonating Christ.

There is no clear statement from Mrs. White that says Satan personates Christ after probation's close. You refer to the chapter in Great Controversy, and that is fine. However, you cannot prove that the entire chapter is presented in chronological order, nor can you prove the entirety of its contents speak of events in post-probationary time. In fact, a careful reader can find many references within that chapter to times preceding probation's close, such as when Mrs. White clearly speaks of "now". In fact, let's look carefully at that passage, beginning with that point, and you'll see that we cross the line again into post-probationary time several pages later. I've color-coded the table to show where the switch occurs.

Now, while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ. Not even by a thought could our Saviour be brought to yield to the power of temptation. Satan finds in human hearts some point where he can gain a foothold; some sinful desire is cherished, by means of which his temptations assert their power. But Christ declared of Himself: "The prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me." John 14:30. Satan could find nothing in the Son of God that would enable him to gain the victory. He had kept His Father's commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble. {GC 623.1}

It is in this life that we are to separate sin from us, through faith in the atoning blood of Christ. Our precious Saviour invites us to join ourselves to Him, to unite our weakness to His strength, our ignorance to His wisdom, our unworthiness to His merits. God's providence is the school in which we are to learn the meekness and lowliness of Jesus. The Lord is ever setting before us, not the way we would choose, which seems easier and pleasanter to us, but the true aims of life. It rests with us to co-operate with the agencies which Heaven employs in the work of conforming our characters to the divine model. None can neglect or defer this work but at the most fearful peril to their souls. {GC 623.2}

The apostle John in vision heard a loud voice in heaven exclaiming: "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time." Revelation 12:12. Fearful are the scenes which call forth this exclamation from the heavenly voice. The wrath of Satan increases as his time grows short, and his work of deceit and destruction will reach its culmination in the time of trouble. {GC 623.3}

Fearful sights of a supernatural character will soon be revealed in the heavens, in token of the power of miracle-working demons. The spirits of devils will go forth to the kings of the earth and to the whole world, to fasten them in deception, and urge them on to unite with Satan in his last struggle against the government of heaven. By these agencies, rulers and subjects will be alike deceived. Persons will arise pretending to be Christ Himself, and claiming the title and worship which belong to the world's Redeemer. They will perform wonderful miracles of healing and will profess to have revelations from heaven contradicting the testimony of the Scriptures. {GC 624.1}

As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour's advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. Revelation 1:13-15. The glory that surrounds him is unsurpassed by anything that mortal eyes have yet beheld. The shout of triumph rings out upon the air: "Christ has come! Christ has come!" The people prostrate themselves in adoration before him, while he lifts up his hands and pronounces a blessing upon them, as Christ blessed His disciples when He was upon the earth. His voice is soft and subdued, yet full of melody. In gentle, compassionate tones he presents some of the same gracious, heavenly truths which the Saviour uttered; he heals the diseases of the people, and then, in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion. Like the Samaritans who were deceived by Simon Magus, the multitudes, from the least to the greatest, give heed to these sorceries, saying: This is "the great power of God." Acts 8:10. {GC 624.2}

But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image, the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God's unmingled wrath shall be poured out. {GC 625.1}

And, furthermore, Satan is not permitted to counterfeit the manner of Christ's advent. The Saviour has warned His people against deception upon this point, and has clearly foretold the manner of His second coming. "There shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. . . . Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth; behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:24-27, 31; 25:31; Revelation 1:7; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17. This coming there is no possibility of counterfeiting. It will be universally known--witnessed by the whole world. {GC 625.2}

Only those who have been diligent students of the Scriptures and who have received the love of the truth will be shielded from the powerful delusion that takes the world captive. By the Bible testimony these will detect the deceiver in his disguise. To all the testing time will come. By the sifting of temptation the genuine Christian will be revealed. Are the people of God now so firmly established upon His word that they would not yield to the evidence of their senses? Would they, in such a crisis, cling to the Bible and the Bible only? Satan will, if possible, prevent them from obtaining a preparation to stand in that day. He will so arrange affairs as to hedge up their way, entangle them with earthly treasures, cause them to carry a heavy, wearisome burden, that their hearts may be overcharged with the cares of this life and the day of trial may come upon them as a thief. {GC 625.3}

As the decree issued by the various rulers of Christendom against commandment keepers shall withdraw the protection of government and abandon them to those who desire their destruction, the people of God will flee from the cities and villages and associate together in companies, dwelling in the most desolate and solitary places. Many will find refuge in the strongholds of the mountains. Like the Christians of the Piedmont valleys, they will make the high places of the earth their sanctuaries and will thank God for "the munitions of rocks." Isaiah 33:16. But many of all nations and of all classes, high and low, rich and poor, black and white, will be cast into the most unjust and cruel bondage. The beloved of God pass weary days, bound in chains, shut in by prison bars, sentenced to be slain, some apparently left to die of starvation in dark and loathsome dungeons. No human ear is open to hear their moans; no human hand is ready to lend them help. {GC 626.1}

Will the Lord forget His people in this trying hour? Did He forget faithful Noah when judgments were visited upon the antediluvian world? Did He forget Lot when the fire came down from heaven to consume the cities of the plain? Did He forget Joseph surrounded by idolaters in Egypt? Did He forget Elijah when the oath of Jezebel threatened him with the fate of the prophets of Baal? Did He forget Jeremiah in the dark and dismal pit of his prison house? Did He forget the three worthies in the fiery furnace? or Daniel in the den of lions? {GC 626.2}

"Zion said, The Lord hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me. Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of My hands." Isaiah 49:14-16. The Lord of hosts has said: "He that toucheth you toucheth the apple of His eye." Zechariah 2:8. {GC 626.3}

Though enemies may thrust them into prison, yet dungeon walls cannot cut off the communication between their souls and Christ. One who sees their every weakness, who is acquainted with every trial, is above all earthly powers; and angels will come to them in lonely cells, bringing light and peace from heaven. The prison will be as a palace; for the rich in faith dwell there, and the gloomy walls will be lighted up with heavenly light as when Paul and Silas prayed and sang praises at midnight in the Philippian dungeon. {GC 627.1}

God's judgments will be visited upon those who are seeking to oppress and destroy His people. His long forbearance with the wicked emboldens men in transgression, but their punishment is nonetheless certain and terrible because it is long delayed. "The Lord shall rise up as in Mount Perazim, He shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His work, His strange work; and bring to pass His act, His strange act." Isaiah 28:21. To our merciful God the act of punishment is a strange act. "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked." Ezekiel 33:11. The Lord is "merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, . . . forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin." Yet He will "by no means clear the guilty." "The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked." Exodus 34:6, 7; Nahum 1:3. By terrible things in righteousness He will vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. The severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor may be judged by the Lord's reluctance to execute justice. The nation with which He bears long, and which He will not smite until it has filled up the measure of its iniquity in God's account, will finally drink the cup of wrath unmixed with mercy. {GC 627.2}

When Christ ceases His intercession in the sanctuary, the unmingled wrath threatened against those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark (Revelation 14:9, 10), will be poured out. The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God's people. Says the revelator, in describing those terrific scourges: "There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image." The sea "became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." And "the rivers and fountains of waters . . . became blood." Terrible as these inflictions are, God's justice stands fully vindicated. The angel of God declares: "Thou art righteous, O Lord, . . . because Thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and Thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy." Revelation 16:2-6. By condemning the people of God to death, they have as truly incurred the guilt of their blood as if it had been shed by their hands. In like manner Christ declared the Jews of His time guilty of all the blood of holy men which had been shed since the days of Abel; for they possessed the same spirit and were seeking to do the same work with these murderers of the prophets. {GC 627.3}


In approximately the center of the still-probationary time passage quoted above, Ellen White speaks clearly of a testing time to come to every individual. Obviously, there is no need to test anyone after probation has closed. This is something God does during our probationary time. As a part of this test, Satan is allowed to personate Christ--but God's people will not be deceived, because they are grounded in a knowledge of the scriptures and because God will not permit Satan to imitate the manner of His coming.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
(bold emphasis mine)

Blessings Green,

You and others in this Forum insist on points that are moot and mundane! It doesn't matter if the angels know when probation closes. That is not a point to this discussion. Although, you haven't demonstrated whether the angels know or not.

The points are these; Sometime after probation has closed for the entire planet earth and all mankind, Satan will personate Christ on this earth. NOT before the close of probation. These points are completely true and factual. Period.

You can fabricate whatever you want out of "The Time of Trouble". But, you can't prove anything you have stated! So, to try and flip that and say I can't prove anything is simply foolishness. I have demonstrated from the Bible and Ellen White where I am correct and you are incorrect.

If you have a point to make, make it. But, you can't. That is what you need to admit to yourself.

Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ [Re: dedication] #179043
01/14/16 12:30 AM
01/14/16 12:30 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Ellen White wrote;

The people of God will then be plunged into those scenes of affliction and distress described by the prophet as the time of Jacob’s trouble. “Thus saith the Lord: We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.... All faces are turned into paleness. Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.” Jeremiah 30:5-7. {GC 616.1} (bold emphasis mine)

God's people are being tested just as Jacob was tested that night he wrestled with the Angel of the Lord.

Re: When Does Satan Personate Christ [Re: dedication] #179044
01/14/16 01:24 AM
01/14/16 01:24 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
I am wrestling with this myself, which is why I am reading this with great interest.

One thing that concerns me is that we all need to respect one another's differences in the manner of how we post in response to the way the other person believes. That is the only way we will win a person over to the truth of the matter, in this case being whether probation closes before or after the devil personates Christ's second coming.

I am definitely going to need to take a personal look at all of this myself.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

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