Green wrote;

"Here's a good quote, Alchemy, to help us with the time line. Note that Mrs. White makes no mention of Satan being deceived regarding the time.

Originally Posted By: Ellen White
Satan sees that he is about to lose his case. He cannot sweep in the whole world. He makes one last desperate effort to overcome the faithful by deception. He does this in personating Christ. He clothes himself with the garments of royalty which have been accurately described in the vision of John. He has power to do this. He will appear to his deluded followers, the Christian world who received not the love of the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness (transgression of the law), as Christ coming the second time. {LDE 164.1}


Note, also, that Mrs. White makes no mention of the faithful needing not to concern themselves about this deception, as she logically should if their cases were already to have been closed at this point."

I am quite familiar with this quote and there isn't anything to your points. In the chapter The Time of Trouble, Sister White clearly states that "God's people will not be misled". Yet, they still suffer trouble and trials.

Green wrote;

"Why would it matter what Satan did if probation were already closed? God does not allow Satan to do this for the express reason that His followers who know the truth are to be able to stand by it. Their cases, then, cannot have been already decided, for if they were deceived, they would fall at this time into Satan's camp, just as Satan wishes."

Just assumption on your part. As I have stated before, Satan still believes he can win his case. But, to do this, he must deceive the rest of the world to murder all of God's people! Satan doesn't care if God's people are deceived, because he is just going to murder all of them. Ellen White uses the term "Israel would lose their lives". {SpM 2.1}[/color]

Your complete concept of the close of probation is skewed to the point that you ask all the wrong questions. You insist Satan needs to convert God's people when he is simply wanting all of them dead. Period.

Green wrote;

"Consider the following statements. The first one shows that the plagues will fall as soon as probation is closed.

Originally Posted By: Ellen White
When Christ ceases His intercession in the sanctuary, the unmingled wrath threatened against those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark, will be poured out. The plagues upon Egypt when God was about to deliver Israel, were similar in character to those more terrible and extensive judgments which are to fall upon the world just before the final deliverance of God's people. Says the revelator, in describing those terrific scourges: "There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image." The sea "became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." And "the rivers and fountains of waters . . . became blood." Revelation 16:2-4. Terrible as these inflictions are, God's justice stands fully vindicated. . . . [color:#FF0000]{FLB 340.2}

These plagues are not universal, or the inhabitants of the earth would be wholly cut off. Yet they will be the most awful scourges that have ever been known to mortals. All the judgments upon men, prior to the close of probation, have been mingled with mercy. The pleading blood of Christ has shielded the sinner from receiving the full measure of his guilt; but in the final judgment, wrath is poured out unmixed with mercy. {FLB 340.3}"


Now, what are you doing Green? These statements come right out of the chapter "The Time of Trouble" and I have addressed them already.

All this is just one lame point after another. You must do better.

The personation of Christ by Satan is all after the close of probation. And everything in the Bible and Ellen White's writings support that fact! You have brought nothing to the table Green.

Green wrote;

"Satan figures out that probation has closed.

Originally Posted By: Ellen White
Satan Infers That Probation Has Closed

In the time of trouble Satan stirs up the wicked, and they encircle the people of God to destroy them. But he does not know that "pardon" has been written opposite their names in the books of heaven.--RH Nov. 19, 1908. {LDE 234.1}

As Satan influenced Esau to march against Jacob, so he will stir up the wicked to destroy God's people in the time of trouble. . . . He sees that holy angels are guarding them, and he infers that their sins have been pardoned, but he does not know that their cases have been decided in the sanctuary above.--GC 618 (1911). {LDE 234.2} (bold emphasis mine)


Interesting statements.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa."

Again, Sister White clearly states that this attempt by Satan to destroy God's people is during the Time of Trouble, the Time of Jacob's Trouble by the reference to Esau. This is clearly after the close of probation!

With all this evidence all showing the personation of Christ by Satan to be after the close of probation, what would make anyone believe that it is before the close of probation?!? No such evidence exists! Period.

Alchemy,

The ones who are prepared to be translated to heaven will not enjoy strife and debate. Regardless of whether you see my interpretations to be correct, please remember Christian courtesy.

I have found this forum to be increasingly difficult to work with in this respect, which is one reason I find it necessary of late to take "breaks" from it for awhile. If the influence of others here has stirred up your negative emotions by pushing all of your buttons, just remember that we wrestle not against flesh and blood.

Satan's final deception will be a masterpiece, in part, at least, due to the kindness and gentleness which he will display in mimicking Christ. In part, he will also work miracles. Mrs. White says that so will God's people in the last days. Signs and wonders cannot help us know which entity has the truth with the true Spirit. Satan will have truth. But he will not have true love, joy, or peace.

We need more than truth here, Alchemy. We need God's Spirit as well.

God bless,

Green Cochoa.

"Last Day Events" is a compilation. If you'd like to know EGW's timeline, look at original sources. Look At "The Great Controversy". If one it waiting for a death decree for Sunday or a manifestation of Satan as Christ, it will be too late. The time of Jacob's trouble is after the close of probation. If Jacob had not truly repented before this time of his trouble, he would have been destroyed. Read Great Controversy chapter 39 to get the sequence of events.

Alchemy, that's uncalled for!

Wow Green!

I have long understood and believe that the time of trouble before the close of probation is called the little time of trouble. And that the Time of Trouble after the close of probation is called Jacob's Time of Trouble.

Please, explain why you are not convinced that Jacob's Time of Trouble is not after the close of probation?

Again, in the chapter "The Time of Trouble" in the book The Great Controversy, immediately after the close of probation, Sister White describes Jacob's Time of Trouble. I take this as a direct effort on Sister White's part to make sure no one is confused with the little Time of Trouble. Because, the little Time of Trouble is before the close of probation while Jacob's Time of Trouble is after the close of probation.

You have much to answer for, Green. But, I understand the confusion if people are confused on this point.

You see, when I first joined the SDA Church in 1982, I would hear about the personation of Christ by Satan from time to time. But, the message then wasn't clear. I can remember people getting all caught up about stories that Satan had sent messages to earth from space and stuff like that.

Well, that lasted about 5 years or so, and then nothing until 2015. For about 25 years years I heard nothing about Satan personating Christ until I read the chapter "The Time of Trouble" again!! And then having it brought up in this thread here. I have finally delved into this subject myself. And it has been a very holy experience for me! Having God direct me as He has done.

So, I don't know why so many people are locked into this idea that Satan personates Christ before the close of probation, but, you need to let that go. You need to cut that loose. Because, it is impossible to demonstrate that Satan personates Christ before the close of probation!

Amen APL!

Blessings APL.

Can I ask you a question?

How or why is this idea that Satan personates Christ before the close of probation so entrenched within the SDA Church?

Here's what you need to answer, Alchemy:

Will you or anyone else know when probation has closed?

It seems we are told in the Bible that:

1) No man will know;
2) The angels of God will not know;
3) Even Jesus may not know (depends on interpretation of Mark 13:32);

AND

4) Mrs. White tells us Satan himself can only "infer" that it has closed.

Interestingly, Satan infers this because God's people are protected by the holy angels. So do the holy angels at that point know as well? If so, how can the Bible be correct that they will not know?

You see, the real question to grapple with here, and where you and I may differ, is whether or not probation's close is an event at a single moment in time, or if it closes at different times for different people and/or groups of people. I believe the latter. I believe probation may have closed for God's people at the time of Jacob's trouble. However, the world still has a chance. The plagues are not yet. Probation for the world still continues for a time, while the saints are persecuted and some martyred. No saint will lose his or her life after probation has closed for everyone. As long as persecution of the saints means some of them are put to death, we can be assured that probation has not closed for the world. Their deaths will inspire some to accept God in the final moments of earth's history.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Green wrote;

"Here's what you need to answer, Alchemy:

Will you or anyone else know when probation has closed?"

What are you talking about?

The exact time when probation closes is not the issue. So, no Green. I never have to answer that question. Your point here is worthless.