Green Cochoa,
i understand that in many parts of the world it is not practical or even possible to follow the ideal diet as outlined in the inspired writings. We must do the best we can with what is available to us. However, if the ideal diet is available , then we should take full advantage of it.

I do not think it is wise to think that because milk and eggs have not been excluded from the inspired dietary counsel, that they are somehow essential to our diet.

Milk and eggs are not the healthiest choices for humans, when a variety of wholesome fruits, vegetables, grains and nuts are available.

i think the following counsel from Mrs. White explains this well.


Those who live in new countries or in poverty-stricken districts where fruits and nuts are scarce, should not be urged to exclude milk and eggs from their dietary. It is true that persons in full flesh and in whom the animal passions are strong need to avoid the use of stimulating foods. Especially in families of children who are given to sensual habits, eggs should not be used. But in the case of persons whose blood-making organs are feeble,?especially if other foods to supply the needed elements cannot be obtained,?milk and eggs should not be wholly discarded. Great care should be taken, however, to obtain milk from healthy cows and eggs from healthy fowls, that are well fed and well cared for; and the eggs should be so cooked as to be most easily digested.
The diet reform should be progressive. As disease in animals increases, the use of milk and eggs will become more and more unsafe. An effort should be made to supply their place with other things that are healthful and inexpensive. The people everywhere should be taught how to cook without milk and eggs, so far as possible, and yet have their food wholesome and palatable.?The Ministry of Healing, 320, 321, 1905 { CD 365.1-2}

They're not? Why, then, did Mrs. White say they were part of the most healthful diet?

Mrs. White's writings indicate that she, living in California, had an abundance of fruits and vegetables at her table. Why, then, did she still use milk and eggs if they were not "somehow essential to our diet"?

Her last days were spent with raw egg as her staple food.



And she both owned her own milk cows, and recommended them to others.



If she had the luxury of good space for a garden, and hired men to cultivate it for her, she had plenty of fruits and vegetables at her table, why the need of the cow?

You see, she lived the message she preached, and she preached that milk and cream were part of "the most healthful diet."

Dairy products are not the enemy. The enemy is the contamination of them. Fruits and vegetables these days have the same enemy. Monsanto / Bayer is destroying even their DNA by making genetically modified strains that are resistant to their Roundup (glyphosate). And many outbreaks of salmonella, E coli., etc. have come out lately among vegetables: tomatoes, salad greens, cabbages, etc. Hygiene is important. Mrs. White speaks of using proper sanitation methods for dairy products. She didn't say to give them up, but told us how to use them properly.

When it is time to give them up, she said, God will reveal it.

So I ask again, has God revealed it to you? This is the question every vegan should be answering before adopting the vegan dietary.

In Heaven, we will not eat milk and eggs. We will no longer need them. In Heaven, we will have the fruit of the Tree of Life. That fruit is essential to our health and diet--but we cannot partake of it here.

This world does not presently allow us to follow our ideal diet. We are on "Plan B" instead of "Plan A."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Green Cocha,
You did not include my full statement. I said," Milk and eggs are not the healthiest choices for humans, when a variety of wholesome fruits, vegetables, grains and nuts are available".

This not just my opinion. This is what Mrs. White said. Let us look again at what she said:



She called milk and eggs stimulating foods that should be avoided by people of full flesh. If stimulating foods should be avoided when possible, is it not logical to conclude that they are not the healthiest choices for healthy humans who have access to a variety of clean, fresh whole foods from the plant kingdom?

The fact that Mrs. White ate 3 raw eggs a day when her appetite was failing and that she had a milk cow on her property does not override her inspired counsel stated above. There may have been circumstances we are not aware of that made her make these choices. But I think it best to go by her inspired counsel rather than choices she made under circumstances that we are not privy to.

There is another statement Mrs. White made that we should not overlook:



I assume that after the passing of Mrs. White, God has and will continue to give more light on the food question. This new light will not contradict previous light, but will increase our knowledge as to the whys and wherefores of our health message.

There have been many new findings as to the deleterious effect of regular milk and egg consumption. These findings, rather than contradicting our health message injunctions, have bolstered them. Milk and eggs are not the healthiest choices for humans, when a variety of wholesome fruits, vegetables, grains and nuts are available.

The Eden diet before the fall (Gen 1:29) was amended by God after the fall. Our fallen natures made us now prone to unhealthy thoughts and feelings as well as unsanctified appetites The result would be ill health and disease. To help counteract that, God gave us permission to now eat the healing herbs of the field. (Gen 3:18)

Mrs. White is in accord with this when she added vegetables to the original Eden diet.



Green Cochoa, when I said something similar to this above statement you said,> ?We cannot make any statement like this with certainty. It is not possible to prove.? That is true, but this is where faith in the inspired message is tested.

We all have to decide for ourselves as to what we do with our inspired health message. I am just telling it as I see it. If you see it differently, so be it, just as long as neither of us knowingly contradict inspiration.

...

I did indeed include your full statement. Look at my post again and you will see I quoted your entire sentence just as you quoted it again here.



If you wish to chastise others for not including full statements, it's a shame to see that you do not include Mrs. White's full statement either. In fact, the part you omitted shows that she is saying the exact opposite of what you have wished to have her say by quoting just a part of it. You do know that she speaks against this sort of misrepresentation of her words, don't you? So let's look at that full paragraph:



In that paragraph, she is saying that we should eat eggs, with the exception of persons who are:

1) "in full flesh"; and
2) "given to sensual habits."

Everyone else should be eating eggs. That statement says nothing about the unhealthfulness of eggs, it simply addresses the fact that they stimulate the lower appetites. We could say, perhaps, that they have a bit of an aphrodisiac effect. For many doctors and others, that means they are health-enhancing. For those, however, who have weak wills in that area, it would not be best to encourage such.




That's a misrepresentation via a half-truth. See the other half of the truth listed in my two numbered points just above. When the truth is considered in its proper context, the conclusion you have reached is not so well supported.



Mrs. White lived the health message that she taught, despite your allusions to the contrary.



I'm glad you know that the new light will not contradict the previous light. In that case, milk and eggs should not be discarded until God tells us to do so.



Here you are simply mistaken. I have seen first hand the deleterious effect of abstaining from the use of dairy products. One vegan young lady of about 18 years of age became unable to walk. I showed her that Mrs. White described her condition, and that she prescribed the dairy products to remedy it. The young lady began to use dairy products again, and was soon able to walk. I think I once described this experience earlier on this forum, if not in this very thread. I also have first-hand knowledge of vegan parents whose children had stunted growth and development, and the mother became unable to produce milk for her infant. Does that sound "healthy"?



You might like to see more of what Mrs. White says on the topic. Did you know that Mrs. White says only "a very small minority" of the people can do well without milk or eggs?

If you're one of those, count yourself blessed. But please feel under no burden to advocate your own diet for others. Mrs. White is clear that we should not be teaching people to dispense with milk and eggs. Not once in her writings did she indicate that either milk or eggs were unhealthful.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

that is NOT what she saud, that IS what green said!

Green LOVES eggs! Even will eat them IF the are injurious...

You might do a search of "eggs" on this forum and see who is promoting eggs most every chance he gets.

Also, take a look at a similar conclusion I made:
Pure water supplies B12 - ?

Green takes a statement Ellen White made to those on extreme diets, diets which leave out necessary things, and tells them to take eggs to supply what they were depriving themselves of by using an unbalanced diet. (eggs was not what was being deprived but what the eggs were supplying). He then says B12 is necessary. Therefore, since A supplies B, and B is necessary and C is necessary, then A must supply C also. It doesn't matter that Green's recommendation of 1 egg doesn't supply enough B12, since Ellen White said so, and we can forget the facts.

Using the same "creative interpretation", Since fiber is necessary, and eggs supply necessary things, therefore, eggs supply fiber.

Jackson posted a statement that offers EGW's BALANCED view on the subject.

Summary:
Eggs may be necessary when the diet is impoverished, and IF that is the case, then be sure they are obtained from healthy fowls...
BUT we are to make an effort to replace them with OTHER HEALTHFUL foods and teach people to cook WITHOUT milk and eggs, but still serving wholesome and palatable food.

Green lives in the orient, as you can see in the header of his posts.
It may be very likely that "impoverished diets" is quite wide spread there, and supplying eggs may be a good thing for those people.

However, most of us live on the North American continent, where we have a huge variety of foods to choose from -- foods that are imported from all over the world. The nutritional problems here tend to be different than in the orient. Here it's more a matter of getting people to eat real food --plant based diets, and not all that refined stuff and meat and eggs and cheese.

Here cancer, diabetes, heart problems, dementia, are HUGE PROBLEMS!!!!
And it's not due to a lack of milk, eggs, meat, and animal products.

Meat, Dairy, and Egg farming have become massive production procedures, with lots of economic pressure to keep people buying and keeping the money coming in. A lot of the info put out as "scientific health" promoting milk, eggs, cheese and meat is really propaganda by the big producers.

There are a lot of other sobering studies showing the danger of these products --
It's not just Adventists realizing the need to return to real food as grown if they want to be healthy.

Why would we fight EGW's counsel to learn to cook health promoting meals WITHOUT those products.
While not condemning people who use some eggs and milk, I don't think we should be promoting the use of these items.

There is a lot of "mental impairment" "mental sluggishness,' "mental fog" "dementia" etc. in North America. It's getting to be epidemic. More and more kids seem to be put on pills of some kind or other, so they can "learn" in school. I've never seen so many kids with problems, needing medication just to operate normal as have sprung up in the last couple decades. And this is happening in a country where milk and eggs and meat are consumed in large amounts.

We've bragged about our healthy seniors and the studies that show Adventists live longer and healthier than the average American. It seems forces are working to nullify that? Maybe?

Yes, I live in the Orient, and yes, the diet here is one which requires eggs more than the American diet. (We need more sulfur on account of the prevalence of toxins here.) But all people need vitamin B12, it is an essential nutrient--meaning our bodies cannot make it--and B12 is not provided by a vegan diet.

If you do not have a source of B12, you have an impoverished diet. It's that simple. Either you supplement, get shots, or in some similar artificial manner supply your lack, or you eat the natural dairy products from healthy animals to do so.

Or you can recycle some of your stool into your food, as one researcher did with marvelous effect. (I'd rather eat an egg.)

No, I do not eat eggs because I like them too much to give them up. I often do not relish them much at all, but I try to like them because science and Ellen White agree that we gain more from foods we enjoy. I eat them for health and strength. It is what we are prescribed to do.

But I have seen cases of severe nutritional deficiency in vegans in America. They had plenty of good fruits and vegetables in their diet, being conscientious Adveganists who merely wished to eat for health. They did not have a junk-food diet. But they still came to harm. A near relative of mine was hospitalized and nearly died on account of his veganism. While in the hospital, he let go of his vegan idol, and accepted dairy products again. He lived. Virtually the same was true of Dr. Kress in Ellen White's day. She wasn't sure her letter would even reach him in time! But he followed her directions, and continued eating three eggs a day for the rest of his long life.

In that same letter in which she instructed him to eat milk and eggs, she also gave direction that veganism should not be taught.



So we have two separate statements from Mrs. White that some might consider to be at odds with each other:

1) The doctrine of dispensing with milk and eggs should not be taught.
2) People should be taught how to cook without milk and eggs.

While these are very near to appearing opposite in meaning, the word "how" in that second line is critical. But for that word, she would indeed have contradicted herself. Take a closer look at the actual statement:



Without that word "how," she would be telling us to teach people to give up the milk and eggs. But that would then contradict her statement that we must not give them up until God tells us it is time. The message is not to come from the brethren, but from God--because she tells us not to teach this vegan doctrine.

So what are those two statements saying? They tell us that we are to prepare people for the time when the milk and eggs must be abandoned, while at the same time, we must not tell them that now is the time to do so. God is to do that, not us. It is not our own conscience that is to be made an authority for anyone else.



So those who advocate giving up the milk and eggs, and urge others to do so, are in acting in contradiction to the very same pen of inspiration they suppose themselves to be following. They often see themselves in a superior light, thinking those who still eat milk and eggs are inferior to themselves. This is modern Pharisaism. But Mrs. White tells us that the results will not be what the vegans thought they would be, and that God would work to counter their influence.



God has not required that we abstain from milk and eggs. Mrs. White clearly states this, and that God will work against the veganists' ideas. Therefore, until God does require this, and tells us so, we must not run to extremes. Many wish to run ahead of the Cloud, and not wait for God to lead them.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.