Good point. I've seen it over and over that without divine help we'll all interpret scripture according to our biases rather than the plain meaning. One way to test ourselves is to ask whether we're being consistent in our application on a given point. EG White exclaimed "Consistency, thou art a jewel!" The Lord help us all to be candid with ourselves and humble about our opinions.

Not being consistent is what is keeping many good Christians from embracing the Sabbath.

Consistency is quite absent when the trumpets are put in the future.

1. If one insists on absolute consecutive prophetic writing and ignores the continual movement of scenes in heaven that run parallel to scenes on earth.
indeed a person will come up with erroneous doctrine if one refuses to acknowledge that this is the case.
Revelation repeats, just like Daniel repeats, going over the same time with different emphases to enlarge and bring out different points.

2. Much is lost concerning the "last days" when all the trumpets are shifted into the future after the censer is thrown down and probation closes. Indeed it makes the trumpets a great field of speculation.

3. The first six trumpets all sounded before "the time of the end" before 1844.
It is after the sixth trumpet that the angel announces there is no more time. (The timelines have ended)

4. The two chapters after the sixth trumpet and before the seventh trumpet, depict the end of the 1260 years and the end of the 2300 years.
We find there the great disappoint, the rise of the church that must "prophecy again" as well as the two witnesses released from their 1260 year sack cloth experience. These are depicted just before the seventh trumpet.

5. The seventh trumpet began to sound in 1844. We are living in it's time right now. It is the time when Christ is finishing the work of salvation in the heavenly temple. And leads us into eternity.

6. In the seventh trumpet the ark of the testament (the MOST HOLY PLACE) is brought to our attention -- Christ's ministry in the Most Holy Place --- it's the time to judge the dead,



7. The thunder, lightening and voices occur:
a. after Christ throws down the censer in chapter eight
b. at the end of the seventh trumpet in chapter eleven
--- indicating Christ throws down the censer when His work in the Most Holy is completed at the end of the seventh trumpet. .

Repeats? Could you show how what you just said does not fit in with the following?

it indicates "the seven angels who had the seven trumpets" prepared to sound after the censer/fire was thrown to the earth.

Rev 8:2 Seven angels with seven trumpets stand before God.
8:5 Censer/fire thrown down.
8:6 Seven angels with seven trumpets prepared to sound.
8:7 First angel sounded.

Do you suggest that by some unusually odd construct that those verses are not in order?
How does "repeating" even possibly play a role here?

Let me "repeat": the First angel sounded (8:7) after the Censer/fire thrown down (8:5).

Can you show that to be true from Rev 8:2-8:7?

Revelation 8:2

The angels are given their trumpets
The Angel, Who wasn't really an angel, but Christ Himself, was given much incense which He offers at the altar of incense.

John then continues with the heavenly narrative depicting Christ's work in the Holy Place, then He places the coals in the golden censer (something earthly priests always did as they prepared to go into the Most Holy Place. Finally He comes out and the censor is cast down. (Which, according to history, the priest did when he came forth from the sanctuary.)

John then goes BACK to those angels who were given trumpets at the beginning of the narrative, and gives us details about them.

The first six take place while Christ is in the Holy Place.
Why do I say that??
Well, after the sixth -- chapters 10 and 11 deal with events taking place AT THE END of the time lines. The time when Jesus entered the Most Holy.
The SEVENTH Trumpet -- the day of atonement --
Study Revelation 10 to 11 along with Daniel 7 - 8

So you're saying that just after John starts this next vision in Rev 8:2, (7 angels, 7 trumpets), there is a break and he goes FORWARD with verses 3,4,5, then goes BACK at verse 6?

Interesting idea. Can you give scriptural support?

Yes, it's the way Revelation is written.
Showing one side then going back and showing another side.

Another example -- Revelation 20

What happens after the thousand years are over?
First we see the focus on Satan -- what he does and what happens to him.


20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.....
20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.
20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone

Then it goes back and focuses on God -- what He does and how He deals with the situation.

20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.



Now the question --
WHEN does the fire that destroys Satan and all who are not found in the book of life take place?

Before (vs 10) or after (vs 14,15) the great white throne judgment?

Have you read what the SDA commentary says on Rev 8:2-5?

Here's something Ellen White said:

Yes, when the censer is thrown down and the proclamation "IT IS DONE" is spoken-- probation has closed.

Scripture says this proclamation takes place during the seventh plague:

Rev. 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake,
16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven,

That phrase is repeated three times in Revelation -- the voices, thunders, lightnings and earthquake,
And every time it's at the END -- not at the beginning.

At the end of Christ's ministry:
Rev. 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast [it] into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

At the end of the seventh trumpet:
Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded (19)and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


At the end of the seventh plague 16:17-18,21 (See first quoted text)

Ok, I agree. So what is your objection?

But proclamation and throwing things down are not mutually exclusive, no?

At the end of Christ's ministry where?
Most Holy.
Christ's ministry on behalf of sinners.

Are not trumpets and plagues the same?
That's why the same phrases.

Do you say the plagues happen before probation closes?
Is that before or after the battle of Armageddon? Is Armageddon before the second coming?
What about the statements to the contrary that say the plagues cannot fall until the saints are sealed?


We need to study the pouring out of the seventh vial. The powers of evil will not yield up the conflict without a struggle. But Providence has a part to act in the battle of Armageddon. When the earth is lighted with the glory of the angel of Revelation eighteen, the religious elements, good and evil, will awake from slumber, and the armies of the living God will take the field. {Mar 257.2}
Four mighty angels hold back the powers of this earth till the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads. The nations of the world are eager for conflict; but they are held in check by the angels. When this restraining power is removed, there will come a time of trouble and anguish. Deadly instruments of warfare will be invented. Vessels, with their living cargo, will be entombed in the great deep. All who have not the spirit of truth will unite under the leadership of satanic agencies. But they are to be kept under control till the time shall come for the great battle of Armageddon. {Mar 257.3}
Every form of evil is to spring into intense activity. Evil angels unite their powers with evil men, and as they have been in constant conflict and attained an experience in the best modes of deception and battle, and have been strengthening for centuries, they will not yield the last great final contest without a desperate struggle. All the world will be on one side or the other of the question. The battle of Armageddon will be fought, and that day must find none of us sleeping. Wide awake we must be, as wise virgins having oil in our vessels with our lamps. . . . {Mar 257.4}
The power of the Holy Ghost must be upon us, and the Captain of the Lord's host will stand at the head of the angels of heaven to direct the battle. Solemn events before us are yet to transpire. Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded, vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth. Scenes of stupendous interest are right upon us. {Mar 257.5}


The angel, the mighty angel from heaven, is to lighten the earth with his glory, while he cries mightily with a loud voice, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen" (Revelation 18:2). Oh, how I wish the church to arise and shine because the glory of the Lord has risen upon her. What can we not do in God if every human agency is doing its very utmost! "Without Me ye can do nothing" (John 15:5). We would lose faith and courage in the conflict if we were not sustained by the power of God. Every form of evil is to spring into intense activity. Evil angels unite their powers with evil men, and as they have been in constant conflict and attained an experience in the best modes of deception and battle, and have been strengthening for centuries, they will not yield the last great final contest without a desperate struggle. All the world will be on one side or the other of the question. The battle of Armageddon will be fought, and that day must find none of us sleeping. Wide-awake we must be, as wise virgins having oil in our vessels with our lamps. What is this? Grace, Grace. {1888 761.3}
The power of the Holy Ghost must be upon us, and the Captain of the Lord's host will stand at the head of the angels of heaven to direct the battle. Solemn events before us are yet to transpire. Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded, vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth. {1888 762.1}


The battle of Armageddon will be fought. And that day must find none of us sleeping. Wide awake we must be, as wise virgins having oil in our vessels with our lamps. The power of the Holy Ghost must be upon us and the Captain of the Lord's host will stand at the head of the angels of heaven to direct the battle. Solemn events before us are yet to transpire. Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded; vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth. Scenes of stupendous interest are right upon us and these things will be sure indications of the presence of Him who has directed in every aggressive movement, who has accompanied the march of His cause through all the ages, and who has graciously pledged Himself to be with His people in all their conflicts to the end of the world. He will vindicate His truth. He will cause it to triumph. He is ready to supply His faithful ones with motives and power of purpose, inspiring them with hope and courage and valor in increased activity as the time is at hand. {3SM 426.1}