THE FIRST BEAST IN REVELATION 13
This beast continues from Daniel's beasts in Daniel 7 --

1. Mouth of a Lion -- Babylon talk
2. Feet of a Bear -- Persia's infallible laws
3. Body of a leopard -- philosophies and gnostic thinking of Greece
4. It's a beast -- Rome (which has absorbed into itself the former kingdoms)

It has seven heads
The pioneers identified these as the seven political phases of the Roman Empire.
Kings, Consuls, Decemvirs, Dictators, Triumvirs, Emperors, and Popes,

They felt the heads had to relate to the beast to which these heads were attached.
This beast that had already absorbed Ancient Babylon, Persia, Greece, into itself is ROME.
Thus the heads must be governments of Rome.

Though it seems to me the seven divisions mentioned as governments of Rome are rather arbitrary.
Yes, at first it was a kingdom in which there was a succession of seven kings from 753-509 BC.
But in 509 BC Rome entered into a Republic which had consuls, Senates, two parties, etc., the dictators were only temporary when there was an emergency with six month limit. But the government at that time (509 - 27 BC) was considered to be a Republic.
As Rome conquered more territory rivalry for power emerged and so they did have a triumvir, three who fought with each other to take control. For a brief moment it seemed Julius Caesar won, but he was assassinated. This all led to Rome becoming an Empire, Caesar Augustus being the first emperor in 27BC. Yet even after it was an empire it was often divided into two, three or even four sections. Constantine is an example, as he conquered his co-rulers in different sections of the empire to become sole emperor. Later it was again divided into east and west. So not sure those seven phases the pioneers ascribed to the heads are that clear.

The interpretation that the seven heads are connected to Rome, Roman heads, however makes sense.
But do we go all the way back to 753 BC to identify these heads?

Yet, the prevailing interpretation today goes all the way back 605BC for it's heads., some even throw in Assyria and/or Egypt which goes back even further -- like 2000 years before Christ!!!
I'm not convinced Revelation is moving that far back, it's dealing with issues from John's time to the end.

I remember reading an article suggesting the seven heads represented seven phases in papal history, which I thought quite interesting. They adapted their idea from the seven divisions Richard McBrien makes in his book "Lives of the Popes".

1) 100AD -312 AD Early church bishops of Rome seeking power over the other bishops. As early as 190 AD we see Victor, bishop of Rome, assuming to dictate to the other bishops concerning when they must observe Jesus death and resurrection. His forceful and harsh action evoked a storm of protest, but the incident shows the growing belief that the bishop of the Roman church enjoyed some kind of primatial status in the church.

The first phase above was not yet "Roman" though, as the Apostle Paul mentioned iniquity was already working but being held in check, it isn't till the Roman Empire joined with the church that the Roman papal power was "let grow". (2 Thes. 2:7)

1st 312 -508 AD The bishops of Rome (popes) under the protection of the Roman Emperor.
With this support the bishops of Rome were set above all the other bishops. We have popes like Sylvester I, who supported Constantine's Sunday law, Pope Leo the Great, a strong advocate of papal authority. During this time the papacy was groomed for its role. In 495 Pope Gelasiu I assumed the title Vicar of Christ, and advanced the theory of "two swords" (referring to the authority of the pope in both the sacred and temporal spheres.

2nd 508 -800 AD Popes beginning their overseeing control of the west, with the aid of kings of the Franks. Western Rome having fallen to the barbarian tribes, the papacy starts to fill in the vacancy, and gradually withdraw from dependence upon the Eastern Emperor.

3rd 800 - 1000 AD The Caroline Empire, Pope Leo III crowned Charlemagne, the for runner of the Holy Roman Empire. . Stephen IV anointed a succeeding emperor (Louis the Pious) continuing the precedent of Pope Leo III that papal approval was necessary for an emperor to rule. There was a common understanding that no kingly power could judge the pope, and moral standards within the papacy weren't that good during these years.

4th 1000-1450 AD Papal Highest Time, Gregorian Reforms, Crusades, Persecuting power.

5th 1450 - 1798 The threat to their power from rise of Protestantism, Counter Reformation, to losing political power

6th 1798 - Present Modern Papacy (without the political power)

7th Restored Papacy (political and religious power)

Rich H, I agree that what makes the most sense to me as well are the successive empires. While often the 7 mountains have been understood as the 7 hills of Rome, while this may be on one level, on a greater level is that empires had sacred mountains. In the Bible the true sacred mountain is Mt. Zion. The first counterfeit mountain was the tower of Babel. In college these 7 empires were presented as those ruling over God's people in place of a son of David, or from a son of David until THE son of David.

Both George McCready Price in his timeless book "The Time of the End" and my professors from AUC gave a suggestion that has imy pressed me. And when I was at Andrews we had a guest professor from Europe Peri Windandi (spelling?) who pointed out that the image of Daniel 2 can be broken up into 7 parts, and this has also been suggested by Stephen Haskell that Daniel 2 breaks into 7 parts. I see their 7 parts as at least compatible with the views on Revelation 13.

These would be

1. Babylon

2. Medio Persia

3. Greece

4. Rome

5. The Holy Roman Empire/Papal Supremisy -- The feet of iron and clay. In the Bible clay is what God molds. But here instead of being molded by God the clay is being molded by the iron, the state. Thus this is the world united in a church-state that was ruling in place of the son of David over God's people.

6. The Deadly Wound--the TOES of iron and clay: The beast is but the head is not. The crowns are on the horns, not on the head. The world is divided into independent states, some offering more freedom others more restrictive. This grows from the American and French Revolution (With the American Revolution offering freedom through good laws and liberty of conscience. The French Revolution seeing freedom as absence of law, and that the common people can't handle freedom, only the ?lite can, others sadly need to be controlled). While our art work divides the horns over the beast, they are basically on the 6th head (the deadly wound) but shares power with the 7th head, the deadly wound being healed and sharing power with the horns.

7. The Deadly Wound being healed-the attempt for the toes to join together, but which will not last long but end up in total chaos. As we read the details later in Revelation we find that the woman (the church) is riding the beast. We find the first to cry at the fall of Babylon are the merchants of the earth (the corporations) and we find a very long shopping list in the Bible, of expensive items from all over the world. This indicates a short period of the nations uniting, not by politics and military conquest, but by the independent nations uniting in economic cooperation submitting themselves to the merchants of the earth. Thus it is also an 8th head because it is so different from the military and political powers in the past. A time of relative peace and prosperity, but with a carefully balanced system that everyone needs to cooperate with so that it does not collapse. No room for even a small group who won't harm anything to go their own way. Everyone will either/and have to give up something in their conscience, or use external control psychology to pressure others to comply with the system. Religious people will no longer be able to ignore points in the Bible that does not fit their traditions over what they think inspiration should be; and thus Satan causes his last great deception to make of no effect the spirit of prophecy. The reasons why many Seventh-day Adventists give up Mrs. White's work will be the same reasons why the Christian church in general will give up the Bible. And why turn to this untrustworthy book or other writings, such as Ellen White's when we have "Jesus" right here among us as well as the Bible "writers" and people like "Mrs. White" as well as my dear sweet "grandma" all resurrected and living among us and telling us what to do.

Once again, Daniel teaches us that the 7th empire will only last a short time before collapsing into total chaos, and of course the blame will be placed on those who wanted to cling to the Bible and their conscience, and as we are going through the time of Jacob's trouble while the world is in a religious high, and where feelings rule people, those they blame will look like miserable people so let's put them out of their misery. And as we saw people willing to be active on January 6 and others on September 11, so this same idea will unite people for the universal death decree.

But then there will be the cloud, about half the size of a man's hand, a rock carved out without hands that will smash the image in the feet, and God's people will again be ruled by our true King, the "He" who was suposed to rule over us since Genesis 3:16 (we often apply the "He" to the Husband, but in his commentary on Genesis Jacques Doukhan points out that the poetry just continues from Genesis 3:15 and that the "He" is the promised "He" of Genesis 3:15. The true son of David. Our Lord Jesus!!!

In the end, I don't think it matters significantly whether people believe the seven heads are
--As the pioneers believed -- seven phases of Roman government
--As a few Adventists believe -- seven phases of the Roman papacy
--As some Adventists believe -- seven Empires in the world. beginning with Egypt
--As many other Adventists believe -- seven Empires beginning with Babylon.

Each of those four interpretations zero in on basically the same endpoint scenario of the Roman papacy's political power being fatally wounded, and reviving for a last display of power.

But which one brings the conflict for the church into the best focus?



Two of those interpretations place the point in time reference in John's day. Thus they already have five heads of the Roman/papal beast in the past before this beast even emerges from the sea, with the sixth head (pagan Roman) in operation in John's day, with seventh that is yet come; and continues a short space as the medieval papacy.

But let's look at these verses:
How do we interpret these verses
17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, which had seven heads and ten horns
17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Questions arising from the above verses:

Was John carried into another time?
To the time when the woman Babylon, is sitting on the scarlet beast?
To the time when the beast "is not" ( for it had received a fatal wound)?
That's why there is such astonishment in the dwellers of earth to see him ascending, coming back to life?

At what point "IS THE BEAST NOT"?

A lot of us take this as the reference point in time to which John was carried in the spirit.
The time when the beast was wounded (is not, yet is) when one of it's heads had a fatal wound.

With this reference point for time

-- those who say the heads are empires stick with Daniel's empires.
Five fallen -- Babylon, Media Persia, Greece, imperial Rome, papal Rome.
The papal head is mortally wounded, the beast is dead, (is not), yet is about to come out of the grave. Sixth head -- (some say America)
Seventh head -- Roman power restored. Beast is alive again.

Also with this reference point when "the beast is not"
-- those who say the heads are seven papal phases throughout the Christian era
Five fallen -- the political papal phases have all fallen,
This takes them up to sixth head when the beast (political part of the papacy) "is not",
the beast is dead, but the woman survived, she "is".
And to the astonishment of the people, the beast is coming out of the grave.
Seventh head -- restored papal political power.

Since this message follows the warning of the judgment, it must be given in the last days; therefore it cannot refer to the Roman Church alone, for that church has been in a fallen condition for many centuries. Furthermore, in the eighteenth chapter of the Revelation the people of God are called upon to come out of Babylon. According to this scripture, many of God's people must still be in Babylon. And in what religious bodies are the greater part of the followers of Christ now to be found? Without doubt, in the various churches professing the Protestant faith.