Yes, ordination is the method, or means for denominational churches to show who they deem representatives of their church who can preform legal services in the name of the church.
Thus yes, it is the churches process to address the "legal" thing as well.

If being a pastor is just a matter of hiring and paying someone -- that drags the whole pastoral work into the realms of common employment.
[quote]Church issue.
Government could care less.

[quote]What you seem to be suggesting is to get rid of any middle, practicing/learning, step and give trainees (newly appointed pastors) full recognition as soon as they enter the ministry.
That would not solve the controversy at all as the controversy is over giving women full recognition as pastors.

Simply changing the title won't change the minds of people who think women should not be allowed to be fully recognized pastors.

The accusations against the NAD is that they are misusing the "license" period to circumvent the GC decision, and giving licensed women ever fuller recognition, thus elevating the license (probationary intern period) to the level of ordination.

So it seems you are just suggesting to hasten that move?

That its becoming more and more wishy washy, is true enough!
Yet, Ordination IS the issue for it is the means to be recognized as full pastor.
The General has already ruled that women should Not be pastors. That's the underlying issue of the vote -- it is saying "women should NOT be pastors. They can witness, but never with the authority of a fully recognized pastor.

The NAD on the other hand, says YES, women should be pastors, and proceeds to carve out loop-holds to circumvent the General Conference decision.
How do they make loop holes? -- by changing the label. Having a "commissioning" ceremony carry the same weight as the ordination ceremony.

Simply changing, or getting rid of the title conferred on those who are recognized as full pastors with the authority to represent the church as shepherds and also take care of legal matters for the church, won't change the minds of people who think women should not be allowed to be fully recognized pastors.

If ordination is required by the government it is not a church thing. It's a worldly requirement which has nothing to do with God and has everything to do with the devil rather than God as he is the prince of this world.

1. Ordination of pastors is not required by the government. Governments have rules as to recognized means by which to identify representatives of an organization who can preform legal services in the name of the organization or church. Ordination has been a "church thing" since Bible times signifying a person is a recognized representative of the church.

2. If ordination has nothing to do with God and is of the devil, that is a very serious statement that would say the apostle Paul instituted the methods of the devil -- and EGW did as well, and all the churches from the earliest time.


3. And yes, a probationary period before ordination is also recommended by Paul, and seconded by EGW who admonishes that there should be no haste in "laying on of hands" . "Lay hands suddenly on no man."
First see if they are really converted, and called of God.

The issue is not ORDINATION --
The issue is "can women be ministers" ?

If the answer is yes -- then a woman who senses a call would go through the "probationary" licensed period and on to ordination just like any male candidate for the ministry.
If the answer is no -- then they should not be given the license either with a wishy washy idea it is equivalent to ordination because it is NOT equivalent to ordination.

Your quote from scripture seems to be out of context.

1Timothy 5: 22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men?s sins: keep thyself pure.

The Apostle Paul writes to Titus: "Set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: if any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God." Titus 1:5-7. Lay hands suddenly on no man." 1 Timothy 5:22. {CCh 247.3}
In some of our churches the work of organizing and of ordaining elders has been premature; the Bible rule has been disregarded, and consequently grievous trouble has been brought upon the church.

* * * * *

Those who are about to enter upon the sacred work of teaching Bible truth to the world, should be carefully examined by faithful, experienced persons. [SEE ALSO P. 122.] After they have had some experience, there is still another work to be done for them; they should be presented before the Lord in earnest prayer that he would indicate by his Holy Spirit if they are acceptable to him. The apostle says, ?Lay hands suddenly on no man.? [1 Timothy 5:22.] In the days of the apostles, the ministers of God did not dare to rely upon their own judgment in selecting or accepting men to take the solemn and sacred position of mouth-piece for God. They selected the men whom their judgment would accept, and then they placed them before the Lord to see if he would accept them to go forth as his representatives. No less than this should be done now {GW133}

After these have had some experience, there is still another work to be done for them. They should be presented before the Lord in earnest prayer that He would indicate by His Holy Spirit if they are acceptable to Him. The apostle says: "Lay hands suddenly on no man." 4T 407

The question is not about God's instructions on ordination but about a civil requirement for ordination so government can keep track of ministers.

If it's out of context then that's saying EGW used it out of context -- which I don't believe.





The question of this whole thread is SHOULD WOMEN BE ORDAINED AS MINISTERS?

So it seems this thing of thinking ordination is not of God, is thrown in to confuse the issue. The government does not require churches to ordain their ministers. Just because governments recognize that churches use ordination as the criteria to designate who is representative of the church, thus authorized by the church to also act as a legal representative, is not the same as thinking governments somehow are source of ordination.

Your quote from scripture seems to be out of context.

1Timothy 5: 22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men?s sins: keep thyself pure.

The Apostle Paul writes to Titus: "Set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: if any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God." Titus 1:5-7. Lay hands suddenly on no man." 1 Timothy 5:22. {CCh 247.3}
In some of our churches the work of organizing and of ordaining elders has been premature; the Bible rule has been disregarded, and consequently grievous trouble has been brought upon the church.

* * * * *

Those who are about to enter upon the sacred work of teaching Bible truth to the world, should be carefully examined by faithful, experienced persons. [SEE ALSO P. 122.] After they have had some experience, there is still another work to be done for them; they should be presented before the Lord in earnest prayer that he would indicate by his Holy Spirit if they are acceptable to him. The apostle says, ?Lay hands suddenly on no man.? [1 Timothy 5:22.] In the days of the apostles, the ministers of God did not dare to rely upon their own judgment in selecting or accepting men to take the solemn and sacred position of mouth-piece for God. They selected the men whom their judgment would accept, and then they placed them before the Lord to see if he would accept them to go forth as his representatives. No less than this should be done now {GW133}

After these have had some experience, there is still another work to be done for them. They should be presented before the Lord in earnest prayer that He would indicate by His Holy Spirit if they are acceptable to Him. The apostle says: "Lay hands suddenly on no man." 4T 407

You take one phrase of a sentence and apply it to ordination when the next phrase speaks to not partaking of another man's sins.

The question is not about God's instructions on ordination but about a civil requirement for ordination so government can keep track of ministers.