According to Leviticus 11:9-12 (quoted below), we are not to eat anything of the water that doesn't have both fins and scales.

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Leviticus 11:9 "These you may eat, of all that are in the waters. Everything in the waters that has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers, you may eat.

Leviticus 11:10 But anything in the seas or the rivers that has not fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and of the living creatures that are in the waters, is an abomination to you.

Leviticus 11:11 They shall remain an abomination to you; of their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall have in abomination.

Leviticus 11:12 Everything in the waters that has not fins and scales is an abomination to you.

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Here is my question: Does mackerel have both fins and scales?

For the life of me, I can't figure out where folks got the strange idea that Adventists can keep Jewish Kosher laws...Don't folks know how destructive this is to our witness? How can we battle other christian's arguments that we are "Jewish" when we continue to ignore God's counsels:

"Vegetables, fruits, and grains should compose our diet. Not an ounce of flesh meat should enter our stomachs. The eating of flesh is unnatural. We are to return to God's original purpose in the creation of man. {CD 380.2}

"The Lord intends to bring His people back to live upon simple fruits, vegetables, and grains. He led the children of Israel into the wilderness where they could not get a flesh diet; and He gave them bread from heaven..."And the mixed multitude that was among them fell a lusting and the children of Israel also wept again, and said, Who shall give us flesh to eat? We remember the fish we did eat in Egypt so freely; and the cucumbers, and the melons, and the leeks, and the onions, and the garlic. But now our soul is dried away; and there is nothing at all besides this manna before our eyes." Because they were so determined to have the flesh of dead animals, He gave them the very diet He had withheld from them." {SpM 46.1}

Oh...I'm not saying you aren't an Adventist if you eat dead animals, not at all. But please, somebody show me where it is written that we should keep Kosher!

Somebody told me today that mackerel doesn't have scales, therefore, I am simply asking for a verification on this.

A few years back I saved a web page listing kosher and non-kosher fish to disk, from a site that's no longer in operation (had a premonition!) According to that page, mackerel are kosher/clean. Since then I've read that mackerel have very small scales, leading some to believe that they don't have them.

Below is the section on mackerel from that page, which was in the "Kosher Fish" section:

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Mackerels and tunas (Family Scombridae), Including: Mackerels (Scomber species, Scomberomorus species, Auxis species); Spanish mackerels, cero, and sierra (Scomberomorus species); King mackerel or kingfish (Scomberomorus cavalla); Bonitos (Sarda species); Wahoo (Acanthocybius solanderi); tunas (Thunnus species, Euthynnus species); Skipjack tunas (Euthynnus or Katsuwonus species); Albacore (thunnus alalunga)
But not including: Snake mackerels

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Ikan, of course it's better to be veggie/vegan. But some among our number haven't gotten to that point yet, and for those people it's good to be able to tell them which meats are clean and which aren't, don't you think? If we have members eating fish I'd sure rather see them eating clean fish than unclean.

Oh, I agree, John; there are many among us here too that have not "gotten to that point", and far be it from me to brow-beat anyone over their diets!

But, Kosher doesn't work well today. Why? Pollution and humanly engendered epidemic disease, vastly higher than 500 BC Hebrews ever could have dreamed it to be, over-ride simple A or B Kosher choices.
I suppose that's why God sent His Messenger, EGW, to "update" us in this Industrial Nightmare Age.

Let's look at mackerel, realistically, out of the sanitary looking cans and well lit Seafood case down at the Kroger's:
Warning #1

Warning #2

Warning #3

Would not my warning our brothers and sisters about the dangers of meat eating be my moral duty, as much as being understanding of their reluctance to change their diets to God's more healthy way?

It's all about our own good, this Health Reform of God's, not punishment, torture or masochism.

You're no use has a soldier if you are out of action due to bad canteen habits!

When I was converted at age 15, the first thing I was convicted on was to give up eating clean meat. It wasn't all that hard since I was at a boarding academy and no meat was served to the kids.

But later I had a hard time with fish. I always liked it. My whole family were SDA but still ate clean meat. The Lord knew I was tempted with eating fish, so He arranged for me to marry a fisherman. My husband is a Bristol Bay Commercial salmon Fisherman in Alaska each summer. (We are also close to being vegan) I watched how the salmon were canned one day. My "love affair" with fish was over! Some of those fish were full of worms. And the canning people couldn't care less if they were or not, they were ALL canned. I'm talking about the expensive sockeye salmon.

YES, we need to stay away from all meat. God asks us to stay away from it and not include it in our diet and He has many reasons for it. But mostly so that we will be in good health.

Yeesh! Glad I'm near-vegan as well.

BTW, y'know what I think is worse than fish? Dairy products. (Don't let me get started! Guess that'd be off topic anyway.)

Dairy products?

You can always create a new topic, John, on dairy products.

Go for it John!!! Don't get me started on cheese...I have a love/hate relationship with it. But I'll save that for Johns new topic...

If Adventists are seriously concerned about ancient Kosher laws, that Biblical meat eating bars the eating of crustaceans — aquatic animals with skeletons outside their bodies, including shrimp, crab and lobsters, then they should rightly obey them, true?.

So.....How do today's modern Adventist "clean meat eaters" justify snickering at this?


"...and swallow a camel.."

Your Baptist neighbor sees your diet as on a par with these guys....ask them...I dare ya!

Sure; it's no snap to wean yourself from your favorite meats, but isn't your witness, if not your health worth it?

It was a serious stumbling block for me, as a new convert from the non-SDA world when I read EGW, and saw folks at pot-lucks go veggie, but at home eat beef and such.

[ June 01, 2004, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Ikan ]