An EGW quote that was provided on another topic in this forum resulted in the creation of this topic.

quote:

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"Tea, coffee, tobacco, and alcohol we must present as sinful indulgences. We cannot place on the same ground, meat, eggs, butter, cheese and such articles placed upon the table. These are not to be borne in front, as the burden of our work. The former -- tea, coffee, tobacco, beer, wine, and all spirituous liquors -- are not to be taken moderately, but discarded. The poisonous narcotics are not to be treated in the same way as the subject of eggs, butter, and cheese. In the beginning animal food was not designed to be the diet of man. We have every evidence that the flesh of dead animals is dangerous because of disease that is fast becoming universal, because of the curse resting more heavily in consequence of the habits and crimes of man. We are to present the truth. We are to be guarded how to use reason and select those articles of food that will make the very best blood and keep the blood in an unfevered condition." -- MS 5, 1881. {2MR 107.2}

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What about social drinking? In light of the above quote, social drinking is obviously a sinful indulgence.

Yes, social drinking is definitely wrong.

Somewhere i remember reading where tea and coffee cannot be put on the same level as alcohol and tobacco. Something to the effect that while tea and coffee are bad for the system, they do have some healthful properties. In contrast, we should urge everyone to give up alcohol and tobacco as soon as possible, and that no one can even be baptised while partaking of these soul-destroying substances.

But many SDa's believe it is okay for an occasional social drink. I have a family member who was raised an SDA and still attends church in good standing who believes it is okay to socially drink...so how do we convince them otherwise?

You probably can't, since it appears he is getting away with it in his illusionary religion. If you have faced him about it with candor and love, than prayer is all you have left. Do not resort to "righteous" gossip, or backbiting.
The Lord will pull the rug out from under him, as He always does to hypocrites or the self-willed.

Anyone can be baptized. I don;t buy into the dynamics of complicating a person who wants to be saved by telling them 'You got to get better first'. Can you imagine of that person were to die and you told them that they couldn't be baptized because they were still smoking.. Talk about blood on your hands.

Why is it so difficult to get baptized today compared to the times of Jesus and the early church. The Jailer asked 'What must I do to be saved'

quote:

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Acts 16:30
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed [their] stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

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I don't see anywhere 'Well first lets take an inventory of your bad habits' followed by a 'After you have quit these bad habits then you may be baptized'. Maybe that's why so many people were converted and today its a bunch of red tape.. I am sure glad my pastor did not pull that line on me when I was still smoking and doing who knows what, and most importantly amid all that chaos God reached out and said 'You need to choose who you will serve', so I decided to get baptized because my heart was being led by the Holy Spirit to serve Christ and change, and I did AFTER baptism.. not before.

God Bless,
Will

On the other side of that question, Will, in Acts 2:38 Peter said,

"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Doesn't repenting involve turning away from bad habits?

You would repent from your sins. I sometimes have a bad habit of eating with my mouth open, and have an uncontrollable bad habit of drooling all over my pillow, so bad habits can range from the smallest thing to something perhaps psychological such as cleptomania. I didn't think smoking was a "sin", and I associated sin with things like wanting to steal, murder, things like that you know what's outlined in the 10 commandments.. Still doesn't negate the fact of denying someone the chance to be born again.

For myself I knew that my life had to change, so I gave my life to Christ. How many people are turned away because 'men' think that they cannot approach the Lord in their curent condition will have to be answered for on judgment day.

God Bless,
Will

Well okay, then let's ask this: Are things like smoking and drinking just 'bad habits', or are they sins?

Good question John. I don't know if smoking is a sin or drinking is a sin. I do know that both are bad for you health wise, and you shouldn't do it since the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

I am trying to think of verses that condemn these acts, so the first things that come to mind are about presenting your bodies as a living sacrifice to God while it does not condemn these acts God does tell us to present ourselves as living sacrifices.

God Bless,
Will

If you will re-read Daryl's first post, the very first sentence cannot be ignored. It states plainly these things are "sinful" indulgences.

When someone is convicted of the truth of the Bible and has a desire to join by baptism, these "sinful" things must be put away. It isn't easy and we need to do what we can to help these people but it should be done before baptism.

Many times my husband and I have taken in those who want to quit smoking. My husband has helped them (all were men) by giving them hydrotherapy treatments along with other helpful things such as a good diet, etc. Within seven days they were free of the nicotine in their systems.

[ June 11, 2004, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: debbie ]