Maranatha, page 174, paragraph 2
"The judgments of God are in the land. The wars and rumors of wars, the destruction by fire and flood, say clearly that the time of trouble, which is to increase until the end, is very near at hand. We have no time to lose. The world is stirred with the spirit of war. The prophecies of the eleventh of Daniel have almost reached their final fulfillment."

Daniel 11
40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Here are a few questions:
1. What does the king of the south symbolize?
2. What does the king of the north symbolize?
3. What does Edom, Moab and Ammon symbolize?

Some SDA's believe the "king of the south" symbolizes Communist Europe, the 6th prophetic kingdom that replaced the wounded Catholic Europe. And that the "king of the north", when fully developed, symbolizes the three-fold union of Protestant America, Catholic Europe (healed), and Spiritualism.

According to this interpretation (in conjunction with Rev 17), the fall of Communist Europe in 1989 began the transition period between the 6th prophetic kingdom (Communist Europe) and the 7th (Protestant America) and 8th (Catholic Europe) prophetic kingdoms, which, when the transition is complete, will reign simultaneously enforcing the MOB until Jesus returns to deliver the Remnant and destroy the Babylonians. Satan, through spiritualism, will unite with them to deceive the world.

This three-fold union of spiritual and political power will control world finances to the point where they will be able to regulate buying and selling according to the laws enforcing the MOB. "He shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver." Dan 11:43.

They will also establish some kind of world headquarters in Jerusalem. "He shall enter also into the glorious land [Israel], and many countries shall be overthrown... And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain [Jerusalem]." Dan 11:41, 45.

They will influence the entire world to receive the MOB in either their right hand or their forehead. "But these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon." Dan 11:41. Not everybody will receive the MOB. Whoever E, M & A symbloize, it is obvious that they will not receive the MOB.

The preaching of the glad tidings and the 3AM's will hinder their hopes and prevent them from converting the whole world to the MOB. "But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many."

Amos 8
11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

Shortly after probation closes Jesus will return to destroy them and to deliver the Remnant. "Yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him... And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." Dan 11:45 and 12:1.

Question:
1. What and who does E, M & A symbolize?

[ June 22, 2002, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]

Maranatha, page 174, paragraphs 2 & 5
"The judgments of God are in the land. The wars and rumors of wars, the destruction by fire and flood, say clearly that the time of trouble, which is to increase until the end, is very near at hand. We have no time to lose. The world is stirred with the spirit of war. The prophecies of the eleventh of Daniel have almost reached their final fulfillment."

"In the last scenes of this earth's history, war will rage. There will be pestilence, plague, and famine. The waters of the deep will overflow their boundaries. Property and life will be destroyed by fire and flood. We should be preparing for the mansions that Christ has gone to prepare for them that love Him. There is a rest from earth's conflict."

In the context of final events what does Edom, Moab and Ammon symbolize?

Daniel 11
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

Since the unfulfilled portions of Daniel 11 are future, it makes sense that Edom, Moab and Ammon symbolize end time players who do not comply with the goals of the king of the north. It also makes sense that they do not symbolize the 144,000.

Therefore, it does make sense to suggest that they symbolize those who do not receive the MOB or the seal of God.

Will all the world, every single living being on earth, receive the MOB if they don't receive the seal of God? If so, then what does Edom, Moab and Ammon symbolize?

I had hoped that others would find this topic worthy of study?

Note that EGW specifies that all "Christendom" will be divided between the MOB and the seal of God. But what about the rest of the world? What about Edom, Moab and Ammon?

Last Day Events, page 137, paragraph 2
All Christendom will be divided into two great classes--those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark.--GC 450 (1911).

Last Day Events, page 198, paragraph 4
Not until this condition shall be reached, and the union of the church with the world shall be fully accomplished throughout Christendom, will the fall of Babylon be complete. The change is a progressive one, and the perfect fulfillment of Revelation 14:8 is yet future.--GC 389, 390 (1911).

It does seem that these verses are at the transition point between prophecy fulfilled and yet to be. If one is more a historicist like Urian Smith, those nations of Edom, Moad, and Ammon, escaped a muslim/arab invasion some years ago. The phrase "then shall Michael stand up" is when the Muslims are driven out of the Mosques of Jerusalem. That is the signal for the Great Time of Trouble which follows the Little Time, which we seem to have entered recently. That is the view I favor, as these final prophecies are open to speculation. I'm also beginning to believe THAT GOD ALLOWED THIS UNCLARITY, to test who will be a sincere student, and who will move from love, or move from a desire to dominate. This subject, more than any other, seems to bring out the character traits of Dove or Hawk, on the forums and podium. Because of this, I can know where I need to become more like Christ in my way of treating others who disagree with me. That is what is of prime importance, much more than being absolutely correct about every bit of doctrine. I'm not saying this about you, Mike; but there are some others who sort of tend to run over everybody like a bull dozer, who dare have a different idea than theirs.

[ August 03, 2002, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Restin ]

Restin, thank you for sharing those thoughts. Indeed, these portions of scripture are yet unfulfilled, and just exactly how they will unfold is yet to be seen.

I will share what I have come to understand about Dan.11:40-45 tomorrow Mike.

The premis of the King of the North and the King of the south is determined by who has control of Israel or Palestine. Conseqently in 1919, Great Britain became king of the north, suceeding Turkey as king of he south. during ww2, Ammon Edom and Moab escaped and became the kingdom of Jordan. The United States became King of the North in 1948 when Israel was recognized as a nation. Currently the King of the north is recoganized by the Protestant west, while rejected by the CAtholic west. Protestantism consist primarily of United STates Britain, Australia, South Africa, ect. It is Prostestantism that is making aspostate Israel a biblical fulfilment. Currently we are in the last two verses of DAniel 11.

Whitlee